IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE WESTERN DIVISION ------------------------------------------------------- UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) ) Plaintiff, ) ) VS. ) NO. 03-20111-Ml ) ) VERNICE KUGLIN, ) ) Defendant. ) ------------------------------------------------------- TRIAL PROCEEDINGS VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY BEFORE THE HONORABLE JON PHIPPS MCCALLA, JUDGE AUGUST 4, 2003 VOLUME I BRENDA PARKER OFFICIAL REPORTER SUITE 942 FEDERAL BUILDING 167 NORTH MAIN STREET MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE 38103 2 A P P E A R A N C E S Appearing on behalf of the Plaintiff: TERRELL L. HARRIS, ESQ. UNITED STATES ATTORNEY SUITE 800 FEDERAL BUILDING 167 NORTH MAIN STREET MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE 38103 By: JOSEPH MURPHY, ESQ. Appearing on behalf of the Defendant: LOWELL H. BECRAFT, JR. 209 LINCOLN STREET HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA 35801 ROBERT G. BERNHOFT, ESQ. 207 EAST BUFFALO STREET MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN 53202 3 1 MONDAY MORNING & AFTERNOON 2 AUGUST 4, 2003 3 The voir dire in this case began on this date, 4 Monday, August 4, 2003, at 10:35 o'clock a.m., when and 5 where evidence was introduced and proceedings were had as 6 follows: 7 8 ____________ 9 10 THE COURT: Are we about to ready to bring our 11 panel around so we can proceed with jury selection? 12 MR. BECRAFT: Your Honor, can I take up one 13 real quick matter? 14 THE COURT: Sure. 15 MR. BECRAFT: Friend of mine is a lawyer from 16 Milwaukee, Wisconsin, his name is Bob Bernhoft. He called 17 me and he wanted to help me with this case, and I have 18 invited him to come down and he's going to sit here, and I 19 wanted to introduce him to the court. He filed a motion 20 for pro hac vice admission, but what he's going to do is 21 just assist me during the course of the trial if the court 22 doesn't mind. 23 THE COURT: Sure, that's fine. 24 MR. BERNHOFT: Thank you, Judge. 25 THE COURT: Let me get your last name again. 4 1 2 MR. BERNHOFT: Yes, Bernhoft, B-E-R-N-H-O-F-T, 3 first name is Robert, and I filed a courtesy copy with 4 chambers of that pro hac vice motion that has got my bar 5 numbers, et cetera in there. 6 THE COURT: All right. That's fine. We can 7 bring the -- 8 THE CLERK: They're on their way. 9 MR. MURPHY: Judge, just one thing, I -- I 10 would like to discuss how we're going to handle voir dire 11 today. I would like to suggest that it might be a good 12 idea for the court to do it. This is -- this is a case 13 where they're alleging a good faith defense, I take it. 14 THE COURT: They are. 15 MR. MURPHY: Based on what has been provided to 16 me. 17 THE COURT: Right. 18 MR. MURPHY: And we need to just be real 19 careful that the jury doesn't get confused on what the law 20 is in these tax issues. It's a sensitive subject. 21 THE COURT: Well, I have been letting the 22 lawyers do a good portion of the voir dire. It certainly 23 seems to make most lawyers happy. 24 MR. BECRAFT: I wouldn't mind asking some 25 questions, Your Honor. 5 1 MR. MURPHY: I would rather you ask most of 2 them. 3 MR. BECRAFT: Oh, okay. 4 THE COURT: And I would -- Mr. Murphy -- I feel 5 like, Mr. Murphy -- of course, you always go first in 6 this -- that you can maybe deal with that issue also -- 7 MR. MURPHY: Yes, sir. 8 THE COURT: -- to some degree. I'll ask enough 9 questions so that you'll have plenty of time to organize 10 your voir dire. 11 MR. MURPHY: Yes, sir. Judge, I've got voir 12 dire organized, it's just -- you know, taxes are things 13 people have strong feelings about. 14 THE COURT: They don't like them. 15 MR. MURPHY: They don't like them. 16 THE COURT: Right, but I think y'all have to 17 deal with that and talk about people not being swayed by 18 that sort of point of view. 19 MR. MURPHY: Yes, sir, Your Honor. 20 THE COURT: Sure. 21 MR. MURPHY: Judge, there's just one other 22 thing. Mr. Becraft has submitted some materials to me 23 that the defense is going to use in its presentation of 24 the case, and just so he's not waylaid, at some point I 25 think it would be a good idea to sit down and talk about 6 1 how we're going to handle that, because if you read the 2 cases that deal with the question of how the defendant 3 proves their good faith defense, there's some things 4 that -- in that that bear -- what we take the position are 5 incorrect statements of the law, and generally people are 6 allowed to read those into the record -- portions of those 7 into the record, but the -- that document is not admitted. 8 There's some things that I have no doubt they're 9 admissible and I'm not going to oppose their introduction, 10 and there's other things that I may or may not oppose, but 11 it would be a good idea, I think, if we talked about it 12 beforehand. 13 MR. BECRAFT: If the floor is open, I'll tell 14 the court what I plan on doing, just so the court will 15 know in advance. Your Honor, in a tax evasion case or 16 willful failure to file case, intent to commit a crime is 17 real important. The government must prove that, and the 18 defense is, you know, basically good faith and lack of 19 criminal intent. Now, that requires, quite often, that 20 the defendants testify about their beliefs about the law, 21 and I want to tell the court that this is exactly what I'm 22 going to do, and it will probably eliminate certain 23 objections that Mr. Murphy is going to have. I'm going to 24 get up -- when we get up and give our opening statements, 25 I'm going to tell the jury that all she is going to 7 1 testify about is her beliefs about the law and that the 2 court is going to give the instructions on the law that is 3 relative to this case. When we start getting into the 4 meat of the defendant's motion, that's exactly what I'm 5 going to ask the defendant, you know, are you going to 6 testify about your beliefs about the law, and you 7 understand that the court is to instruct the jury on what 8 the law is itself. I think that giving that at least two 9 or three times, especially coming from the defense, 10 telling the jury in advance that she is just going to be 11 testifying about her beliefs probably eliminates a lot of 12 objections that come from the prosecution. And that's 13 what I intend on doing. I'm going to do that in opening. 14 I'm going to tell the jury that we're going to be 15 testifying about beliefs about the law, and I'm going to 16 tell the jury that you are going to instruct the jury on 17 the law, and the defendant will, in front of the jury when 18 she testifies, in essence, say the same thing. But I 19 think that addresses a lot of the government's objections. 20 THE COURT: Okay. Well, as soon as we get our 21 panel here, we'll start. I will go back and wait until 22 they get here. Be back as soon as they get here. 23 THE CLERK: All rise. 24 (Recess taken at 10:45 until 10:50 a.m.) 25 8 1 2 (Jury panel in at 10:50 a.m.) 3 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, I want to 4 thank you for serving today as a juror. I know you're all 5 just anxious to be here, right? How many people don't 6 have power yet? Anybody? One person. Who is back there? 7 I'm going to let you go home if you want to. How are you 8 doing today? 9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'm fine. 10 THE COURT: You would probably rather be here 11 because it's cooler. We got power about 8:30 last night 12 so maybe you will get it today. I thought we were going 13 to be last in the city, but -- where are you located? 14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Kirby and Mt. Moriah. 15 THE COURT: I don't know, it has been really 16 slow, but maybe you will get your power today. 17 Let me tell you, folks, how many people had 18 power for -- never lost power? Okay. All of you get to 19 be on the jury. How many of you were out of power for 20 more than a week? A lot of you. Yeah, how many more than 21 ten days? Yeah, I get to be in that group. More than 22 twelve days? Yeah, just two of us. Where are you -- 23 where do you live? 24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Me? 25 THE COURT: Yes, ma'am. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 9 1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Over off of Lamar. 2 THE COURT: Yeah, I know, we were really slow 3 getting our power back. You got it yesterday? 4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 5 THE COURT: What time? 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: This morning. 7 THE COURT: You got it this morning? 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 9 THE COURT: I got mine late last night, so they 10 told me they were going to throw one more switch and see 11 if it came on, and actually it did. 12 Well, what we're going to do today is select a 13 jury in a criminal case and in order to do that, we're 14 going to have to -- I was waiting on Mrs. Saba to get 15 here. We have to first swear you all in, and so if you 16 will all stand and raise your right hand. Thank you. 17 THE CLERK: Do you and each of you solemnly 18 swear that the answers to the questions to be propounded 19 to you by the court in this case for which you may be 20 drawn as a juror to be the truth, the whole truth and 21 nothing but the truth, so help you God? 22 THE JURY PANEL: I do. 23 THE CLERK: You may be seated. 24 THE COURT: All right. What we're going to do 25 is we're going to call 14 names and have them sit up here VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 10 1 in the jury box. And, Mr. Tuggle, you may need to move 2 that TV back just a little bit for folks so that the ones 3 back there can see. The first person whose name is called 4 will be asked to sit in seat number one. That's the seat 5 closest to me on the first row, and the second person in 6 seat number two and so forth, all the way down to seat 7 seven, and then we're going to go to seat eight through 8 14. If your name is not called, that does not mean that 9 you will not be called as a juror; it just means that 10 we're going to ask these 14 individuals some questions. 11 Pay attention to the questions, though, as they're asked, 12 because you'll need to answer the same questions if your 13 name is called. 14 THE CLERK: Lashaunda Vasser. Walter White. 15 Larry Spurlin. Muhammad Salaam. William Vedder. Lee 16 Scott. Regina Starnes. Kay Gupta. Linda Saul. Andrew 17 Viverette. Jeffrey Stovall. Alphonso Smith. Frank 18 Vickers. Keith Smith. 19 THE COURT: Who is our first juror? 20 THE CLERK: Lashaunda Vasser. 21 THE COURT: I need to ask you a few questions 22 about being a juror in a criminal case, and the first 23 thing I usually start out is -- I start with Ms. Vasser, 24 and I ask what do you think is the most important 25 characteristic for a juror. Think about it if you were VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 11 1 somebody sitting over there on the other side, what would 2 be most important for you about a jury, what would you 3 want? Ms. Vasser, what's the most important 4 characteristic for a juror to have? 5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Honesty. 6 THE COURT: That's good. Okay. I'm going to 7 make a list here. 8 Let's go to Mr. White. Mr. White, what is 9 another characteristic? 10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: The ability to assess fact. 11 THE COURT: Ability to assess fact. All right. 12 I didn't get your name down right, so tell me your last 13 name again. 14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Spurlin. 15 THE COURT: Spurlin, I knew I didn't have it 16 right. Mr. Spurlin, what is another characteristic that 17 you would want in a juror? 18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: To be open-minded. 19 THE COURT: Open minded. 20 Is it Mr. Salaam? 21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 22 THE COURT: What is another characteristic of a 23 juror? 24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Attentiveness. 25 THE COURT: Attentiveness, okay. So we have VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 12 1 got an honest person who is able to assess the facts who 2 is open-minded and attentive. 3 Is it Mr. Vedder? 4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Right. 5 THE COURT: Another characteristic for a juror? 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Common sense. 7 THE COURT: Common sense. Actually, I will 8 give an instruction on that. You should have common 9 sense. Apply your common sense. 10 Okay. Mr. Scott, another thing? 11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I guess you could say be 12 able to weigh the evidence. 13 THE COURT: Be able to make a decision, to 14 weigh the evidence. You know, it always gets a little 15 harder as we go along. 16 Ms. Starnes -- but we have left out a couple of 17 big things, a couple of big things -- what would you want 18 as a juror? 19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: To be impartial. 20 THE COURT: To be impartial. We have still got 21 some to go. We have got an honest person who is able to 22 assess the facts who is open-minded, attentive, uses their 23 common sense, is able to weigh the evidence and is 24 impartial. 25 All right. And, Mr. Smith, another thing you VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 13 1 would want from a juror? 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I would want someone to be 3 a very good listener. 4 THE COURT: A good listener, absolutely. Good 5 listener. 6 All right. And, Ms. Vickers, something else? 7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: To be able to be 8 emotionally present here with what we're doing. 9 THE COURT: Emotionally -- what do you mean by 10 that? 11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, to not have our 12 thoughts and feelings about what's at home to be 13 emotionally present. 14 THE COURT: To be -- to be focused on the case. 15 I'm going to say focused on the case because the other was 16 a little -- I have got you there. Focused on the case. 17 Mr. Smith? 18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I would say someone that's 19 not prejudiced against anything. 20 THE COURT: Somebody who is not prejudiced, 21 exactly. Mr. Stovall, what is a kind of -- what types of 22 prejudice are we concerned about, because that's true -- 23 Mr. Stovall, I'm going back to Mr. Stovall. Because, Mr. 24 Smith, we have got a long list now, and we're down to an 25 honest person who is able to assess the facts, who is VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 14 1 open-minded, attentive, uses their common sense, who is 2 able to weigh the evidence, who is impartial, a good 3 listener, focuses on the case and who is not prejudice. 4 That's really a good list. I mean that's ten words which 5 are really good descriptors, and usually when I get to the 6 point on somebody who is not prejudiced or -- and somebody 7 said impartial, which is another way of saying that, we 8 start talking about what ways can people be prejudice. 9 What ways are people sometimes prejudice? 10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Race and religion. 11 THE COURT: Race and religion are common ways 12 in which people have prejudice. And, of course, it's 13 inappropriate to consider them, but it is important to 14 know that they're out there. And both of them have been 15 in the news a lot, so that's certainly -- certainly two 16 important ones. 17 Well, are there other things that -- is it Mr. 18 Viverette? 19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 20 THE COURT: Mr. Viverette, other things that 21 people can be prejudiced -- how old are you, Mr. 22 Viverette -- 23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Sixty-four. 24 THE COURT: You're 64. Anybody ever prejudiced 25 because of age as far as you know? Maybe not, you have VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 15 1 never run into that. Ever heard about that, though? 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I've heard of it. 3 THE COURT: Heard that people -- anybody older 4 than 64? I think I have gotten my senior most panelist. 5 We will have to wait -- I will remember that. 6 I will remember that. 7 Sometimes people will say you can't do the job 8 because you're 64, because you're 60, because you're over 9 55 -- 10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That's right. 11 THE COURT: -- whatever it is. And they don't 12 look at you and see that you get around, you do -- you're 13 perfectly capable and healthier than a lot of people who 14 are 40. Some people might not look at that. So that 15 would be a prejudice, a preconceived notion about 16 somebody's ability simply based on age, and that's never 17 happened to you? Nobody has ever -- 18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. 19 THE COURT: That's good. That's because you 20 don't look 64. 21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Thank you. 22 THE COURT: I understand what you're saying 23 there. 24 Ms. Saul, another thing people can be prejudice 25 about? VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 16 1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, other than religion 2 and color? 3 THE COURT: Race, religion, age? 4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Gender could be another 5 one. 6 THE COURT: Gender? 7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Uh-huh. 8 THE COURT: Do you think sometimes women are 9 treated differently than men? 10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I personally have not been, 11 but I have seen other people. 12 THE COURT: You think every football coach in 13 high school is automatically eligible to be the high 14 school principal? 15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. 16 THE COURT: I'm not saying that's an area of 17 prejudice, but some people might say there does seem to be 18 sort of a disproportionate number of football coaches that 19 who gets to be principals of high schools. That's not 20 always true, and I don't want anybody to get that 21 impression. 22 THE WITNESS: Right, right. Depends on the 23 person. 24 THE COURT: But some people might say, well, 25 they didn't consider that female librarian, but they did VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 17 1 consider somebody else. So they looked at it and they 2 said that person can do a better job because of their 3 gender, maybe. 4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Right. Depends upon the 5 person, whether it is male or female, just depends upon 6 their capabilities. 7 THE COURT: It does exist. 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Uh-huh. 9 THE COURT: That's possible. Now, I'm going 10 to -- is it Mr. Gupta? 11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 12 THE COURT: Other types of prejudice? Where 13 are you from? 14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'm from India. 15 THE COURT: You're from India? 16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 17 THE COURT: Nobody is ever prejudiced against 18 people who are not born in the United States, are they? 19 Sometimes they are. 20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I hope not. 21 THE COURT: You hope not. Hopefully, not you. 22 But it can be national origin too, is that a fair one to 23 put in the group? 24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I would certainly like to 25 put that. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 18 1 THE COURT: Okay. National origin. All right. 2 We have got a good set of things people can be prejudice 3 about. 4 Now, I'm going to have you pass that back to 5 Ms. Vasser. She is right in front of you. 6 Ms. Vasser, we have got a good list of things 7 that you have to watch out what you want in jurors and 8 some things you don't want. You don't want people 9 prejudice, and we went through some things there. I want 10 you to do something. We have got five people over there. 11 We have got three people over there and two people over 12 there. One person out there is a defendant in this case. 13 Can you look out there and tell me which one it is? You 14 got the gentleman with the beard and the glasses on there 15 and the lady with -- got her hand on her -- all right -- 16 chin on her hand. Gentleman with the red tie over there, 17 the lady that's blonde, lady right there, and the fellow 18 with the dark hair and glasses and another kind of darker 19 red tie right there. Which one do you think is the 20 defendant? They all look eligible, don't they? I'm 21 kidding you. 22 MR. MURPHY: Judge, I was starting to get 23 worried because they're eyeballing me. 24 THE COURT: Okay. He kind of stood up and 25 threw you off there. He's still in the pool, we don't VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 19 1 want to leave him out. Who do you think the defendant is? 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'm going to say the lady 3 in the black suit. 4 THE COURT: Which one now? 5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Dark hair. 6 THE COURT: The blonde? 7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, not the blonde. 8 THE COURT: The brunette? 9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Brunette. 10 THE COURT: Brunette is the one. 11 Why do you pick her out? Usually what happens 12 is they pick out somebody who looks a little different. 13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah. 14 THE COURT: That's the most common thing for 15 people to do. We always have that -- now, I probably 16 threw you off, because usually people pick out if there's 17 a guy with a beard, and Mr. Murphy stood up, they often 18 pick out -- 19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He stood up, so I 20 eliminated him. 21 THE COURT: But if he had sat there -- often we 22 pick out somebody who looks a little different, and I'm 23 not saying you look that different, but somebody who looks 24 somewhat different, so we had, you know, two red ties -- 25 we had three red ties, put the ties together, maybe they VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 20 1 all look alike, I don't know. But you have a fellow with 2 a beard. All the men wore glasses, so that made it 3 harder, you know. You had a mustache and a beard, that 4 makes that kind of hard to pick out. You had somebody who 5 was a blonde lady, somebody who is -- so you went with the 6 brunette lady. 7 Okay. She is the IRS agent. She is the IRS 8 agent. We do this for a very specific purpose, and that 9 is we all also judge people often on how they look. 10 I'm going to hand that to Mr. White right next 11 to you. Mr. White, you and I don't have much hair, right? 12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That's correct. 13 THE COURT: People make assumptions about 14 people who don't -- mostly good assumptions about people 15 who don't have much hair, I suppose. At least you and Mr. 16 Salaam and I all think the same on that. But they will 17 make assumptions about that, won't they? 18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Correct. 19 THE COURT: And that's just not fair. Is it? 20 It's not a fair way to proceed. And so what we have to do 21 is in order to get rid of prejudice, we have to stop 22 seeing that person as a person who has on, you know, a 23 black jacket, white -- kind of beige, that might be white, 24 I just can't see very well. You know, we have to not make 25 a judgment. Now, I asked Ms. Vasser to do that because VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 21 1 that's part of the illustration. She did exactly what I 2 wanted her to do, which is pick out somebody. In this 3 case, is it appropriate -- would it be unfair, though, to 4 judge anybody on how they appear? 5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 6 THE COURT: Okay. How do we avoid that, doing 7 that? Because the first thing we all do, we all know is 8 we look around and we see somebody and we start making 9 judgments about that person, often very unfairly. Usually 10 completely unfairly, but we do that. How do we avoid 11 doing that in this case? How do we avoid judging people 12 based on appearance? 13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: By listening to the facts 14 of the case. 15 THE COURT: That's exactly right, and you said 16 ability to assess facts earlier, which is exactly that. 17 We listen to the evidence. We listen to the facts, and we 18 put aside preconceived notions about people based on 19 appearance, based on, you know, hair style, based on 20 anything else, we put those all out of our mind. 21 Do you think, Mr. Spurlin, that that is 22 possible for people to do? 23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don't think always. 24 THE COURT: It's not always? 25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 22 1 THE COURT: It's difficult? 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 3 THE COURT: Have you found yourself on occasion 4 sort of having prejudged somebody and found out you were 5 just wrong? 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: On occasion. 7 THE COURT: I mean -- 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I mean it's not often. I 9 have done it in the past. 10 THE COURT: Right. Sometimes you will think 11 somebody is a good guy, and they turn out not to be a good 12 guy. You think somebody is a bad guy, and it turns out 13 they're not a bad guy. 14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Right. 15 THE COURT: It's a natural thing for people to 16 assess things based on appearance, but in a case, in a 17 trial, if we always did that, who would always get off and 18 who would always get convicted? I'm going to ask Mr. 19 Salaam, who would always get off if we just went on 20 appearance and who would usually get convicted? 21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, the wrong person 22 would get convicted, and the right person would walk. 23 THE COURT: Right, exactly, because we would be 24 looking at people and just making a superficial 25 determination instead of looking hard at the evidence, and VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 23 1 we can all think about that that is just inherently unfair 2 in our society. So that's what we're going to have to 3 avoid today. 4 Now, I did mention -- and, Mr. Murphy, I'm now 5 going to let you -- I'm going to now let you introduce 6 yourself and who is with you, and I'm going to let counsel 7 for the defense introduce himself and those who are with 8 him, and you're going to know who the parties are. But 9 you're not supposed to judge them based on their 10 appearance. 11 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Your Honor. My name is 12 Joe Murphy, ladies and gentlemen. I'm an assistant United 13 States attorney here in Memphis, Tennessee, and sitting 14 with me today will be Ms. Debbie White. She is an IRS 15 agent with the Criminal Investigation Division of the IRS. 16 Thank you. 17 THE COURT: All right. Thank you, Mr. Murphy. 18 And, of course, they represent the United 19 States. 20 Yes, sir. 21 MR. BECRAFT: May it please the court, my name 22 is Larry Becraft. I'm an attorney that is here to 23 represent the defendant in this case. I also have a 24 friend of mine that is going to be helping me. He's a 25 lawyer. His name is Bob Bernhoft. This is the man right VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 24 1 here, and for those who didn't guess who is remaining, the 2 lady right here is the defendant. Her name is -- we call 3 her Vernie Kuglin. 4 THE COURT: And it is K-U-G-L-I-N? 5 MR. BECRAFT: That is correct, Your Honor. 6 THE COURT: So it is Ms. Kuglin. Well, 7 hopefully, that exercise was useful to all of you to go 8 through this process and say, you know, maybe we ought not 9 to judge a book by its cover, we ought to wait and see 10 what the content is in the case, and that's -- we usually 11 try to go through that. 12 Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to need to tell 13 you a little bit about the case, because the government is 14 always -- in these criminal cases is always the party that 15 goes first, and it is the government, and before we do 16 that, though, I'm going to go to Mr. Vedder, do you think 17 you should automatically believe the government because 18 they are the government? 19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, sir. 20 THE COURT: Okay. Now, do you have times in 21 your life where you have not agreed with the government on 22 things? 23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I spent 24 years in the 24 military, sir. 25 THE COURT: You always agreed with the VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 25 1 government, is that right? But now -- you're retired now, 2 right? 3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 4 THE COURT: So now you can disagree with them 5 if you want to. 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 7 THE COURT: All right. Would you hesitate to 8 disagree with the government if you thought that the 9 evidence, which is what we have been talking about all the 10 time, the way we have to decide this case, said that you 11 didn't believe the government theory? Now, it's not a 12 matter of personally -- the lawyers don't know anything 13 personally in the case, so it's not a matter of believing 14 or disbelieving one of the attorneys, but will you decide 15 this case solely on the evidence and not decide it for the 16 government just because it is the government? 17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Strictly on the evidence, 18 sir. 19 THE COURT: Right. And you see the importance, 20 everybody has got to be able to do that. 21 Now, hand that to Mr. Scott. Mr. Scott, have 22 you ever had a disagreement with anybody in government? 23 Maybe not. 24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I worked 31 years for the 25 VA Hospital. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 26 1 THE COURT: For the VA Hospital? 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 3 THE COURT: Are you retired now? 4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, on occasion, I kind 5 of had a small problem. 6 THE COURT: Okay. Are you retired -- you're 7 retired? 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Because of that. 9 THE COURT: We can talk about it if we need to. 10 Does that mean that you're -- since you worked for the VA 11 for a long time, actually longer than Mr. Vedder was in -- 12 which branch of the service were you in, Navy, Mr. Vedder? 13 Which branch of the service were you in? 14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Army. 15 THE COURT: Army. Okay, Army. 16 And we have got the VA. Mr. Scott, are you 17 going to, again, just like Mr. Vedder, be able to decide 18 the case based on the evidence and not be inclined to just 19 agree with the government, which, of course, you worked 20 for the government also all these years? 21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I will be able to. 22 THE COURT: If the government does not prove 23 the case beyond a reasonable doubt, you understand that 24 you have to decide for the defendant? 25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: (Nods head up and down). VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 27 1 THE COURT: Okay. That's right. 2 All right. And then we go to Ms. Starnes. Ms. 3 Starnes, who do you work for? 4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Medical doctors. 5 THE COURT: Okay. Physicians. Which group? 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Raleigh Cordova Medical 7 Group. 8 THE COURT: Okay. Well, do you have any 9 problem with the fact that you might have to disagree -- 10 well, you have no obligation to agree with the position of 11 the government, just because it is the government; does 12 that make sense to you? 13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 14 THE COURT: Okay. And if Mr. Murphy presents 15 proof beyond a reasonable doubt on the issues in this 16 case, then, of course, you have to find the defendant 17 guilty, but if they fail to do that, you have to find the 18 defendant not guilty. Is that -- is that something you 19 can live with? 20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 21 THE COURT: Okay. You now understand we're 22 going to decide this case solely on the case, not on those 23 other things we shouldn't consider, and we're going to be 24 that kind of juror that we have all outlined here today. 25 I'm going to hand it back to Mr. Smith. I'm VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 28 1 going to ask -- you said you need to be a good listener in 2 the case. Do you agree -- one thing we didn't talk about 3 is a person has to be very patient in deciding the case 4 because you have to wait until the end of all the 5 evidence. You can't decide the case as you go along. Can 6 you do that in this case? You have to wait until you hear 7 it all, and then you hear Mr. Murphy's final argument and 8 you hear Mr. Bernhoft's final argument, and then you get 9 my instructions on the law, and then you decide the case, 10 can you wait that long? You have got to wait a long time 11 in these cases. 12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, Your Honor, you have 13 to. 14 THE COURT: Absolutely, because you don't know 15 all the evidence until you've weighed it and heard 16 everything. If you decide it based on the first witness, 17 well, that would just be fundamentally unfair. 18 All right. Well, I'm going to tell you a 19 little bit about the charges in the case, and then I'm 20 going to let the lawyers ask some questions in the matter. 21 I am going to -- anybody ever had a dispute with the IRS? 22 Or y'all just happily pay your taxes? All right. You 23 know, I do want you to tell me later on if you have had a 24 dispute with the Internal Revenue Service or something 25 like that, it's relevant. It doesn't mean that you can't VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 29 1 be a good juror, in fact, you might be a better juror for 2 it, but it's something we would want to know about. I'm 3 going to tell you a couple of things. There are -- there 4 is more than one count in this indictment and there's 5 going to be some critical language. I'm going to read the 6 indictment one time right now. I may refer back to it 7 later on and refer back to portions of the indictment; and 8 at the end of the case, you will get a copy of the 9 indictment, you'll get a verdict form, and you'll get a 10 written set of instructions as well as oral instructions 11 which I'm required to give you. 12 Now, the fact that somebody has been indicted 13 does not mean anything about their guilt or innocence. 14 It's simply a way of telling you what the charges are. If 15 we didn't have this mechanism, the defendant would have no 16 way to know how to prepare to confront the charges at 17 trial, so it's a matter of fairness to a defendant. It is 18 not -- and it's a matter of notice to you and me as to the 19 nature of the charges, but it is not evidence at all. 20 Now, is the fact that somebody has been 21 indicted, Mr. Smith, something that would cause you to 22 start to make up your mind -- and I think it's -- well, 23 Ms. Vickers, I'll ask you, is it something that would 24 cause you making up your mind, somebody has been indicted, 25 they must have done something wrong? VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 30 1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I think that's a natural 2 thing to -- if they're there, that possibly they have. 3 THE COURT: But you remember when -- it's 4 totally inappropriate. Does it seem also possible to go 5 back to neutral and say that's totally inappropriate to 6 give that any weight at all? 7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. And your last 8 question, let me say, even though I haven't had any 9 personal whatever with the IRS, but I have worked in an 10 accounting office 18 years for a CPA firm that had 11 interaction, and because of this, I know a lot of times 12 people get put in those situations and they're not guilty. 13 THE COURT: Right. And I assume -- I have 14 never worked in a CPA office, but I will accept your word 15 on that. 16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah. 17 THE COURT: The point being, though, that 18 everybody starts out with a clean slate. Nobody has any 19 black marks on it, you don't get a black mark on it or a 20 negative mark on it for having been charged with an 21 indictment. You're entitled to a jury that will not start 22 out with preconceived notions about your guilt, or for 23 that matter, your innocence. Well, they have to have a 24 preconceived notion about your innocence, you're innocent 25 until proven guilty. They start out, this person is VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 31 1 innocent, and the government has to prove beyond a 2 reasonable doubt that they're guilty. 3 All right. Let me tell you -- I'm also going 4 to tell you that there are six charges in this case -- 5 counts, and the number of counts is also not important. 6 You can't say, well, had it been one, I wouldn't have been 7 bothered, but there's six. Otherwise, how would the 8 government always assure a conviction, Mr. Smith, if the 9 number of counts made any difference? They would just 10 charge with you a bunch of counts, wouldn't they? 11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 12 THE COURT: Right. And that would not be a 13 fair way for our system to proceed. So that -- we know 14 that on each count, a person is presumed innocent, and the 15 government has to prove that count, and the facts that 16 support that count beyond a reasonable doubt even. If 17 they prove another count beyond a reasonable doubt, that 18 still doesn't prove that particular point. So each one is 19 considered separately and independently. 20 Okay. Well, this is what the indictment says. 21 Count 1. That during the calendar year 1996, the 22 defendant, Vernice B. Kuglin. 23 MR. BECRAFT: Kuglin, Your Honor. 24 THE COURT: Kuglin. I'm going to try to get 25 that right. Ms. Kuglin had and received taxable income in VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 32 1 the sum of approximately $162,883.75, that well knowing 2 and believing the foregoing facts, the defendant on or 3 about April 15th of 1997, in the Western District of 4 Tennessee, did un-- did willfully attempt to evade and 5 defeat said income tax due and owing by her to the United 6 States of America for said calendar year by failing to 7 make an income tax return on or before April 15, 1997, as 8 required by law, to any proper officer of the Internal 9 Revenue Service and by failing to pay the Internal Revenue 10 Service said income tax, in violation of Title 26, United 11 States Code, Section 7201. 12 Count 2. That during the calendar year 1997, 13 the defendant, Vernice B. Kuglin, had and received taxable 14 income in the sum of approximately $147,999.60, that well 15 knowing and believing the foregoing facts, the defendant 16 on or about April 15, 1998, in the Western District of 17 Tennessee, did willfully attempt to evade and defeat the 18 said income tax due and owing by her to the United States 19 of America for said calendar year by failing to make an 20 income tax return on or before April 15, 1998, as required 21 by law, to any proper officer of the Internal Revenue 22 Service by failing to pay the Internal Revenue Service an 23 income tax, and by filing a false recall Form W-4 in 1997, 24 in violation of Title 26, United States Code, Section 25 7201. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 33 1 Count 3. That during the calendar year, 1998, 2 the defendant, Vernice B. Kuglin, had and received taxable 3 income in the sum of approximately $137,197.93, that well 4 knowing and believing the foregoing facts, the defendant 5 on or about April 15th of 1999, in the Western District of 6 Tennessee, did willfully attempt to evade and defeat the 7 said income tax due and owing by her to the United States 8 of America for said calendar year by failing to make an 9 income tax return on or before April 15, 1999, as required 10 by law, to any proper officer of the Internal Revenue 11 Service, by failing to pay the Internal Revenue Service 12 said income tax, and by filing a false W-4 -- Form W-4 in 13 1998, in violation of Title 26, United States Code, 14 Section 7201. 15 Count 4. That during the calendar year 1999, 16 the defendant, Vernice B. Kuglin, had and received taxable 17 income in the sum of approximately $146,571.66, that well 18 knowing and believing the foregoing facts, the defendant 19 on or about April 15, 2000, in the Western District of 20 Tennessee, did willfully attempt to evade and defeat the 21 said income tax due and owing by her to the United States 22 of America for said calendar year by failing to make an 23 income tax return on or before April 17, 2000, as required 24 by law, to any proper officer of the Internal Revenue 25 Service, by failing to pay the Internal Revenue Service VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 34 1 said income tax, and by filing a false Form W-4 in 1999, 2 in violation of Title 26, United States Code, Section 3 7201. 4 Count 5. That during the calendar 2000, the 5 defendant, Vernice B. Kuglin, had and received taxable 6 income in the sum of approximately $164,224.28, that well 7 knowing and believing the foregoing facts, the defendant 8 on or about April 15, of 2000, in the Western District of 9 Tennessee, did willfully attempt to evade and defeat the 10 said income tax due and owing by her to the United States 11 of America for said calendar year by failing to make an 12 income tax return on or before April 16, 2001, as required 13 by law, to any proper officer of the Internal Revenue 14 Service, by failing to pay the Internal Revenue Service 15 said income tax and by filing a false Form W-4 in 2000, in 16 violation of Title 26, United States Code, section 7201. 17 Count 6. That during the calendar year 2001, 18 the defendant, Vernice B. Kuglin, had and received taxable 19 income in the sum of approximately $161,189.07, that well 20 knowing and believing the foregoing facts, the defendant 21 on or about April 15th of 2002, in the Western District of 22 Tennessee, did willfully attempt to evade and defeat the 23 said income tax due and owing by her to the United States 24 of America for said calendar year by failing to make an 25 income tax return on or before April 15, 2002, as required VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 35 1 by law, to any proper officer of the Internal Revenue 2 Service by failing to pay the Internal Revenue Service 3 said income tax and by filing a false Form W-4 in 2001, in 4 violation of Title 26, United States Code, Section 7201. 5 Well, six counts, basically, saying pretty much 6 the same thing, not exactly the same thing each time. 7 Sometimes something involving a Form W-4, sometimes not, 8 for the years '96, '97, '98, '99, 2000, 2001. 9 Well, now, you all agreed that you wouldn't 10 decide the case without hearing the evidence, and I just 11 read you the indictment and now you're sitting there 12 thinking some things, right? And the important thing to 13 remember about an indictment is that it is just a charge. 14 It's awfully hard to do, because the inclination of every 15 human being is to do what? Let's see, I'm going to 16 mispronounce it, Mr. Stovall -- it's Jeffrey? 17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Stovall. 18 THE COURT: I'm sorry, Mr. Stovall. What's the 19 natural inclination after hearing six somewhat repetitive 20 charges for different years on a failure to file income 21 tax return case -- I'm generally characterizing it that 22 way, what is the natural inclination for most people to 23 do? 24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Prejudge. 25 THE COURT: Say, my goodness, you know -- and VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 36 1 so, I'm going to go to your colleague right next to you, 2 our senior member of the panel, Mr. Viverette, and how do 3 you not prejudge these charges? How do you avoid -- is it 4 hard to do, hard not to prejudge? 5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. Yes, it is. 6 THE COURT: It's hard. 7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: With the amount of charges, 8 of course. 9 THE COURT: It's a hard thing to do. You know, 10 if it is one charge, you sort of feel one way. I warned 11 you about that, you know, one easier to deal with, six a 12 little harder, and yet that is why it is so important. So 13 how are we going to overcome this sort of hole that, you 14 know, I dug? I got you out of the hole and we all started 15 out nice and even, and then I read you the indictment, how 16 do we get out of that hole and get back to where we're 17 supposed to be, which is requiring the government to prove 18 its case beyond a reasonable doubt and giving the 19 defendant the presumption of innocence that the law 20 requires, how do we do that? 21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Listen to the evidence and 22 try to judge, you know, from the evidence. 23 THE COURT: I mean that's a great answer. 24 That's the answer. I mean you just say, hey, I heard 25 something, and it's not evidence. I heard something, and VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 37 1 it's not evidence, and you get your antenna tuned up 2 because you know what you're going to have to listen for, 3 but you haven't heard any evidence yet. Exactly. 4 Exactly. Do you think people can really do that, Ms. 5 Saul? 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I think that they can. In 7 some cases, it might be a little difficult, but I think 8 that they could if they just let -- left their emotions 9 out and just weighed the evidence and the facts of the 10 case to seek the truth and come to a good conclusion. 11 THE COURT: I think you're right, I think it is 12 a little -- I think it's fairly difficult, but we got to 13 do it, we got to do it in this case. 14 Mr. Gupta, can you do that in this case, can 15 you start out on an even -- you know, this person is 16 presumed innocent, they're innocent, there's nothing on 17 that slate? I don't have any bad marks written on there, 18 can you do that in this case? 19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 20 THE COURT: Okay. How did you go through that 21 process of eliminating hearing that indictment, sort of 22 the effect of hearing charges, how do you deal with that? 23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, basically, I believe 24 that the defendant is going to try to present a case from 25 his opinion exactly all the details, whatever it is, and VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 38 1 the facts and whatnot, and hopefully -- 2 THE COURT: I'm sorry, go ahead. 3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: And, hopefully -- we have 4 to hear all those facts and keep on hearing those and no 5 judgment until the case -- all the facts are heard. 6 THE COURT: Exactly. Now, you have raised a 7 really important point, and I'm glad you did, because the 8 interesting thing about our system, and it's different 9 from many systems, it is different from the Belgium system 10 and the French system and parts of the German system, it 11 depends on what system you're in, is that the defendant 12 actually never has to present anything at all. The 13 government always has the burden of proof, and while there 14 may be things that they present, there may not be things 15 that they present, the government always has the burden of 16 proving each count beyond a reasonable doubt. So we have 17 got to be a little careful there. I'm going to fine tune 18 your response just a little and say that every person is 19 entitled to be represented. The defendant is certainly 20 represented in the case, but she is not required to put 21 any proof on, is that -- is that going to make it 22 difficult for you, Ms. Vasser, in terms of how you listen 23 to the case? She is right in front of you. She is right 24 there in front of you. The fact that you know that she is 25 not obligated to present any proof. Now, they may -- they VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 39 1 may tell you they will, but they are never obligated to, 2 is it still possible for you to keep that frame of mind, 3 innocent until proven guilty -- 4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 5 THE COURT: -- knowing that? Does it make 6 sense that we don't require defendants to -- we don't 7 require them to testify or give any evidence at all, does 8 that make sense? 9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, it does. 10 THE COURT: Because it would be a very coercive 11 system. The system would be very coercive if we could 12 make people get up there and testify, it would take the 13 burden partly away from the government, and that would be 14 wrong. I mean the government has the burden no matter how 15 we look at it, they have the burden of proof. 16 I have done a couple of things. We've gone 17 through what a juror needs to be. I'm going to run down 18 the rest of the list, and make sure everybody -- and then 19 I'm going to tell the schedule. I'm going to see if 20 anybody has got a problem with the schedule. This case is 21 going to take a few days to try. Whether it is three days 22 or four days or five days, it's going to be at least in 23 that range. Never can tell for sure. These are like 24 medical procedures, you know, if they start, they just go 25 until they're over, you can't do anything about shortening VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 40 1 them up. 2 But let's go to Mr. White, Mr. White, having 3 heard everything that you have heard, now do you think you 4 can be a fair and impartial juror in this case and try 5 this case solely on the evidence, or is there something 6 you need to tell me about now either now or in person at 7 the side bar about why you might not be able to do that? 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I believe I can be fair and 9 impartial in this case. 10 THE COURT: All right. And let's ask Mr. 11 Spurlin, can you be fair and impartial in this case, try 12 the case as we've talked about how to try it? 13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, sir. 14 THE COURT: And Mr. Salaam, can you do that? 15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I can. 16 THE COURT: Mr. Vedder, can do you that? 17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 18 THE COURT: Mr. Scott, can you do that? You 19 want to talk to me at side bar? 20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Kind of. 21 THE COURT: I can tell that. We'll talk up 22 here in just a second. 23 Let me ask Ms. Starnes, Ms. Starnes, can do you 24 that in this case? 25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 41 1 THE COURT: And, Mr. Smith, can you do that? 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I could. 3 THE COURT: Ms. Vickers, can you do that? 4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 5 THE COURT: And, Mr. Smith, can you do that? 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 7 THE COURT: And, Mr. Stovall, anything you need 8 to talk to me about or can you do that? 9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 10 THE COURT: Mr. Viverrette, can you do that? 11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 12 THE COURT: And I think we have asked Ms. Saul, 13 I will ask you again, can you do that? 14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 15 THE COURT: And I'm going to ask Mr. Gupta 16 again just to make sure we have got everybody. 17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I can do that. 18 THE COURT: All right. Let me tell you a 19 couple of things, and then I'm going to talk briefly with 20 Mr. Scott at the side bar. The case will be tried on a 21 schedule, we will usually start in here about 9:00 22 o'clock. It may be 9:30, it depends on the schedule for 23 each morning. We usually have some things earlier, but as 24 the case starts, we try to condense them. On Monday, 25 Wednesday, Friday, we take a longer lunch break, it is VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 42 1 usually from 12:30 until 2:00. That won't seem -- once 2 you have taken that long lunch break, you will appreciate 3 that that is a good break for us, but then on Tuesday, 4 Thursday, we take a short lunch break, it is an hour lunch 5 break. It is actually a pretty good schedule, it's pretty 6 tight. We will stay in this case until a little after 7 5:00 each day. We won't stay real late. This is not -- 8 just like, frankly, all your comments were really good, 9 and attentiveness and being able to focus on the case are 10 the type of things that require we not keep you just for 11 hours and hours. You have to be able to have a reasonable 12 day, and we recognize that, so that's what we'll do. I 13 expect the case to be a three to five-day case, I could be 14 wrong. It could be a two-day case, which isn't likely, 15 but it could also be a six-day case, which probably isn't 16 likely either, but I can't tell you in advance. So you 17 have to be available for that period of time. This is 18 Monday, we will go through Friday, and we can be back next 19 Monday, if we need to. That's not a problem. I expect 20 the proof will probably be over in four days, though, that 21 would be my absolute guess. I mean by Thursday. Mr. 22 Murphy, the government will probably end a little before 23 that? 24 MR. MURPHY: Judge, I anticipate that. 25 THE COURT: We never ask the defense how long VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 43 1 the proof is going to be, you know, because they're not 2 required to put any proof on, because it's not fair to 3 them. If you want to tell us, it's okay, but we don't 4 really ask. 5 MR. BECRAFT: Your Honor, I am going to try to 6 finish, if Mr. Murphy finishes Tuesday afternoon or 7 Wednesday morning, I hope to have the case concluded, at 8 latest, by noon on Thursday, the proof. 9 THE COURT: So that's going to be our 10 objective. That's good. We all kind of know where we are 11 on the case. The reason I'm telling you those things is 12 that if you have got a nonrefundable trip and you're 13 supposed to be on vacation next Monday, it's not the case 14 for you. You need to be available that long, probably 15 won't be that long, but if you have got a commitment that 16 you have to meet, then this is not the case for you. I 17 think they have given you the best estimate. That's the 18 best they can do. Anybody who has a problem on the 19 schedule? 20 Okay. Well, I'm going to have -- I'm going 21 to -- Mr. Scott will be our illustration about coming to 22 the side bar. I'm going to have you come around to side 23 bar. If you can just walk in front, it's fine. And we 24 hit some white noise then, so that -- let you have a 25 private conversation at the side. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 44 1 (The following proceedings had at side-bar 2 bench.) 3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: See, right now, I'm in 4 dispute with Internal Revenue, plus my wife is an 5 employee, and she used to work as Internal Revenue 6 employee. 7 THE COURT: You're in dispute with the IRS? 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, kind of. I'm paying 9 them back. But, see, my wife, she works for IRS. 10 THE COURT: Do you think you should not a juror 11 in this case because of that? 12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, it would kind of -- 13 you know. 14 THE COURT: Make you feel -- 15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Feel a little 16 uncomfortable. 17 THE COURT: Any objection to allowing Mr. Scott 18 to be excused? 19 MR. MURPHY: Judge, I don't have any. 20 MR. BECRAFT: No. 21 THE COURT: We're going to let you be excused. 22 Thanks for coming and telling me about it. Thank you. 23 (The following proceedings were had in open 24 court.) 25 THE COURT: We're going to let Mr. Scott be VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 45 1 excused, and we will draw another name. Yes, sir. 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Can I have -- because I 3 have a medical condition, can I have some question that we 4 ask? 5 THE COURT: Sure. Why don't you -- you want to 6 talk to me at side bar or you want to tell me -- you can 7 come around to side bar. 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Can I come around to side 9 bar? 10 THE COURT: Yes. We're going to call that 11 other name right now so we can fill that seat so the 12 lawyers will know who will be seat six. 13 THE CLERK: Marlow Smith. 14 THE COURT: Yes, sir, if you will come around 15 over here. 16 (The following proceedings had at side-bar 17 bench.) 18 THE COURT: Mr. Gupta, yes, sir. 19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'm a diabetic patient, 20 insulin dependent. Sometimes things can happen without my 21 control. I am not sure when the things will be happening. 22 I take shots. 23 THE COURT: Let me ask this. 24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay. 25 THE COURT: How often do you take a shot? VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 46 1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: In the a.m., in the 2 afternoon, and in the p.m., three times. 3 THE COURT: Okay. And did you bring insulin 4 with you today? 5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have not brought insulin 6 with me today, I did not think that I was going to need it 7 for the lunch time today because sometimes I can manage 8 without that. 9 THE COURT: Okay. Will you bring insulin just 10 in case you need it? We will always take a -- 11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah. 12 THE COURT: You administer your own shot? 13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I do. 14 THE COURT: Okay. How are you feeling today? 15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Fine. 16 THE COURT: Okay. We have a general policy 17 that if somebody has a condition that can be managed, we 18 do not want to exclude them from the panel. 19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I see. 20 THE COURT: If you think it's -- that you 21 can't -- cannot serve, if you think it's going to be a 22 problem, then I would want you to tell me, but we are 23 going to try to help you out if there is any -- 24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I will prefer because it's 25 just developed that condition the last few months, six VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 47 1 months, but I've been a diabetic for the last 25 years. I 2 can handle it, don't get me wrong, but I may not be sure, 3 and I would just feel much comfortable if I don't have to 4 do that. 5 THE COURT: If you don't have to serve on the 6 jury at this time? 7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'm going to be honest with 8 you. 9 THE COURT: Okay. You do not use the insulin 10 pump, but you use the shots? 11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I use the shots. 12 THE COURT: Mr. Murphy, I'm inclined if 13 somebody thinks it's a problem -- 14 MR. MURPHY: Judge, I have no objection. 15 MR. BECRAFT: None, Your Honor. 16 THE COURT: We ought to let you be excused. I 17 understand it has gotten a little more difficult lately? 18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 19 THE COURT: Is that right? 20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 21 THE COURT: We're going to let you be excused. 22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Thank you very much. 23 (The following proceedings were had in open 24 court.) 25 THE COURT: We're going to allow Mr. Gupta to VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 48 1 be excused. We will seat somebody else in seat number 2 eight. 3 THE CLERK: Barbara Snodgrass. 4 THE COURT: Mr. Smith, how are you? 5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Doing fine. 6 THE COURT: Been in any big fights with the 7 IRS? 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, sir. 9 THE COURT: All right. 10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Don't make enough money. 11 THE COURT: Well, I think a lot of -- we all 12 feel that way sometimes. Let me ask this -- you raise a 13 great point, though, you really do. We talked about ways 14 people can discriminate against folks. We talked about 15 people of different gender, we talked about appearance 16 because that was really important and a really obvious 17 thing to talk about. We talked about -- let's see, Mr. 18 Stovall mentioned race and religion, Mr. Viverette 19 mentioned age, Ms. Saul, gender, Mr. Gupta had mentioned 20 national origin, different things. Do you think people 21 can treat people differently because of their economic 22 status? 23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'm sure it does happen. 24 THE COURT: Would that be right in a court of 25 law for somebody to be treated differently because of VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 49 1 their economic status? 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: It's not right anywhere. 3 THE COURT: It's not. And that can be both -- 4 that can be -- you think it can apply to both people who 5 make more money and people who make less money? 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'm sure it can. 7 THE COURT: It could be? 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: And I do in my life. 9 THE COURT: Maybe I didn't say that very well. 10 Would it be right to treat -- to hold the government to a 11 lower standard in this case for Ms. Kuglin because she has 12 got some fairly large -- pretty large numbers associated 13 with those income years, would that be wrong just to say, 14 well, she made a bunch of money, you know, she must have 15 done wrong, would that be fair? 16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, Huh-uh. 17 THE COURT: Okay. And that's the same kind of 18 preconceived notion, the idea that we're always concerned 19 about is -- if Bill Gates was here and his income, I don't 20 know what he makes, you know, Bill Gates was here and -- I 21 don't know what he makes, I have no idea, and he made a 22 billion dollars, he makes a lot of money, I don't know 23 what he makes, he makes enough money to last us for 24 awhile, would it be fair to convict him just because he 25 made a billion dollars? VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 50 1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, it wouldn't. 2 THE COURT: Right. And that is an important 3 concept here, just -- it's the same kind of preconceived 4 notion or anything else. The government's burden doesn't 5 change because of your income level. In other words, if 6 you make $50,000, if you make -- you know, $24,000, you 7 have to pay income tax just like everybody else, you know. 8 In fact, I can't remember the scale, but it varies, it 9 varies a good bit. If you make $50,000, you have to pay 10 income tax, if you make a hundred thousand dollars, you 11 have to pay income tax. And the obligation to file that 12 tax return doesn't change because of your income. I'm 13 saying this in general, I know that there may be some 14 exceptions there, but as a general proposition, you got to 15 file. Anybody -- you know, I'm not going to ask everybody 16 now, I'm going to tell you, don't raise your hand, but in 17 the last five years, have each of you filed an income tax 18 return each year? I'm not going to ask too many questions 19 because somebody may not be old enough to have paid income 20 taxes in a couple of those years, and there's some income 21 limits on that too, but most everybody up there has filed 22 an income tax return, at least one in the last couple of 23 years. Now, everybody on the -- I can't remember if 24 you're a student if you have to file one or not. Do you 25 have to file one if you're a student, Mr. Murphy? VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 51 1 MR. MURPHY: Judge, it would depend on your 2 income. 3 THE COURT: It would depend on your income. 4 But by and large, most everybody up there has probably 5 filed an income tax return. So anybody got to rule 6 against the defendant because she looks like she made over 7 a hundred thousand dollars each year? 8 Okay. What about that, Ms. Vasser, you going 9 to rule against her -- you say, well, she must be guilty, 10 they say she made over a hundred thousand dollars each 11 year. We will pass it down to Ms. Vasser. 12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. 13 THE COURT: Okay. And that's important. And, 14 Mr. White, are you going to rule against her just because 15 she seems to have a pretty good size number beside her 16 name? 17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, sir, it should not make 18 a difference. 19 THE COURT: It really shouldn't, that's not 20 what the government is trying to prove there. They're 21 going to have to prove some numbers here, but that's not 22 the key thing. 23 What about that, Mr. Spurlin, are you going to 24 say, well, you know, it would be one thing if she made -- 25 I don't know, if she had -- if she was supposed to file an VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 52 1 income tax return, but her income had been $18,000, but 2 I'm going to treat her differently because I believe her 3 income was in excess of a hundred thousand dollars, would 4 that be wrong? 5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: To treat her different, 6 yes, it would be wrong. 7 THE COURT: It would be wrong, because this 8 otherwise -- Mr. Murphy, this is basically a failure to 9 file case, I don't want to misstate it. 10 MR. MURPHY: Well, it is an evasion case, Your 11 Honor. 12 THE COURT: It's an evasion. 13 MR. MURPHY: And as part of that scheme, we're 14 alleging failure to file and false W-4. 15 THE COURT: They're saying she knew she was 16 supposed to file and she didn't file, and she did some 17 things on some occasions to not file, to avoid it. But we 18 can't just look at the number and reach a conclusion. Any 19 problem with that, Mr. Salaam? 20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. This is an evasion 21 case under 7201, so it doesn't have anything to do with 22 the amount, it's a legitimacy of an evasion. 23 THE COURT: Boy, you have got it down, thank 24 you. We just got to hear the proof on that. 25 Mr. Vedder, can you -- are you going to be VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 53 1 influenced by that number? 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. Numbers don't make any 3 difference, sir. 4 THE COURT: Okay. We're going to look at the 5 actual proof on the issues that are going to be before the 6 court. 7 We have already asked Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith, 8 what do you do? 9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Right now, I'm a golf pro? 10 THE COURT: You're a golf pro? 11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, ma'am -- yes, sir. 12 THE COURT: What happened to the golf course 13 you usually work with the storm? 14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, only one limb fell 15 off of one tree. 16 THE COURT: Where you are a golf pro? 17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Southaven Golf Center. 18 THE COURT: Okay. You were lucky, you were 19 lucky. 20 Ms. Starnes, is that number going to be 21 something that's going to overwhelm your ability to decide 22 the issues that are really going to be before us, the 23 evasion question? 24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. 25 THE COURT: Mr. Smith, are you going to be able VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 54 1 to treat -- you know, we take an oath, a lot of us do, to 2 treat the wealthy -- the rich and poor alike is what it 3 says on a lot of these things, and I don't know if the 4 plaintiff will be offended if we said rich, because it's a 5 very relative thing, but can we treat everybody the same 6 in this case and decide the issues in this case 7 irrespective of the numbers involved, pretty much? 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I could, Your Honor. 9 It will be based on the evidence. 10 THE COURT: All right. Ms. Vickers, is that 11 okay with you? 12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That's fine. It's not 13 about the money, but the evasion. 14 THE COURT: And, Mr. Smith, is that okay with 15 you? 16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 17 THE COURT: And Mr. Stovall? 18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 19 THE COURT: And Mr. Viverette? 20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I agree it's the evasion 21 for not filing taxes. 22 THE COURT: Exactly. And Ms. Saul? 23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 24 THE COURT: Okay. You final -- we have got 25 down to our new juror, now, it's Ms. Snodgrass, is that VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 55 1 right? 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 3 THE COURT: How are you today? 4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'm fine, thank you. 5 THE COURT: What do you do? 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Flight attendant, and I 7 also run an animal rescue organization. 8 THE COURT: What kind of animals? 9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Dogs and case. 10 THE COURT: Dogs and cats. There's one that 11 just does dogs. Is it Mews? What does Mews do? 12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: House of Mews does cats. 13 THE COURT: They do cats? 14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Uh-huh. 15 THE COURT: But you do dogs and cats? 16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: We do dogs and cats. 17 THE COURT: Which -- where? 18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Here in Memphis. 19 THE COURT: On Central? 20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, we do it out of our 21 homes. We have foster homes. People who will take them 22 into their homes and keep them. 23 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Well, you've 24 heard what everybody said about qualities of a good juror? 25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I have. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 56 1 THE COURT: Long list there. Did you agree 2 with those? 3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I did. 4 THE COURT: Okay. And what about the prejudice 5 questions and prejudging questions, any problem with the 6 fact that we cannot prejudge the case, any problem with 7 those? 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don't have a problem with 9 that, no. 10 THE COURT: Can you give the defendant the 11 presumption of innocence that the law requires? And you 12 heard me read the charges, so that was one of the things 13 we went through this process about. Can you give the 14 defendant the presumption of innocence that the law 15 requires? 16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I feel the government is 17 going to have to show the reason, so, yes. 18 THE COURT: But it's a question of being able 19 to give somebody that blank slate. 20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Uh-huh. 21 THE COURT: Can she really start out with a 22 blank slate with nothing written on it, even though we 23 have got those charges there, nothing written, no black 24 marks, anything like that? 25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 57 1 THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Murphy -- and I do have 2 a bunch of other things, but I'm going to let you go 3 ahead. 4 MR. MURPHY: Yes, sir, Your Honor. 5 How are you, ladies and gentlemen, doing today? 6 My name is Joe Murphy, and I'm a prosecutor in the 7 U. S. Attorney's office here in Memphis, and I have got 8 some questions that I would -- or some things that I would 9 like to talk with you about before we begin. 10 Now, this is an income tax evasion case, and if 11 I didn't stand up here and say a lot of people have strong 12 feelings about the IRS and the income tax laws, I would be 13 lying to you. 14 Now, has anybody on the panel had any problems 15 with the IRS? Have you had any audits or anything like 16 that? 17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I was audited a number of 18 years ago. 19 MR. MURPHY: All right. As a result of that, 20 do you have any negative feelings about the IRS? 21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. 22 MR. MURPHY: Okay. But you think you were 23 treated fairly throughout the audit process? 24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 25 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Anybody else? Yes, sir. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 58 1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: We were audited a few years 2 ago also. 3 MR. MURPHY: Okay. And how do you feel about 4 the audit? Do you think you were treated fairly or 5 unfairly? 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, after they, you know, 7 checked it over and so forth, they proved that, you know, 8 we had to pay, in other words. 9 MR. MURPHY: So you had to pay some extra tax? 10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That's right. 11 MR. MURPHY: Do you think the IRS treated you 12 fairly? 13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I suppose so. You know, 14 the change each year, you know, there are certain changes, 15 so forth, but certain things, you know, were deductible, 16 you couldn't deduct it, so it's kind of hard to say, you 17 know, because of the changes, you know, they steady 18 changing what you could deduct. 19 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Can you -- if -- if you end 20 up on the jury in this case, can you put that as -- any 21 feelings you might have as a result of that audit to the 22 side and decide the case based on the facts and the law 23 that the judge gives you? 24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'll do my best. 25 MR. MURPHY: Okay. But do you think you could? VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 59 1 Can you take an oath and swear that you can do it? 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I believe so. 3 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Now, that brings us to an 4 important point. Judge McCalla in this case will instruct 5 you, ladies and gentlemen, if you end up on the jury what 6 the law is and what law you have to apply, and he'll 7 define what the crime of income tax evasion is, that sort 8 of thing. Now, does -- and he'll instruct you that you 9 have to apply his law whether you like it or not. Now, 10 does anybody have a problem with that? Do you think you 11 can apply the law whether you agree with it or not? Does 12 anybody have a problem with that? I know it is Monday 13 morning, nobody is talking. Not getting much of a 14 response, but I'm going to take it to mean that nobody has 15 a problem with that if you aren't raising your hands. 16 Okay. Let me say a word about what we're 17 doing. In voir dire, I only know this because the judge 18 told me this, it is old French for speak the truth, and 19 what we're trying to do here -- we're not trying to get a 20 government jury or a defense jury, we're trying to get a 21 fair jury. We're trying to get a jury that has no 22 preconceived notions that are going to affect the way they 23 control the case, and that's why we're asking the 24 questions we do. Do any of you ladies and gentlemen know 25 any of the parties that are seated here before you here VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 60 1 today? 2 THE JURY: No. 3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She looks familiar. Are 4 you perhaps a real estate agent? 5 THE COURT: I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you. 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: She looks familiar. I just 7 asked if she was a real estate agent. 8 THE COURT: Not a real estate agent. 9 MR. BECRAFT: No, Your Honor, probably Mr. 10 Murphy is probably going to ask, but I think it is an 11 important question to ask, she does work. She is a FedEx 12 pilot, Your Honor. 13 THE COURT: Okay. I think that takes real 14 estate agent part out, doesn't it? 15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'm the director of 16 operations at the airport, so perhaps -- 17 THE COURT: Do you recognize -- 18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I may have recognized the 19 face, but I don't know the lady individually. 20 THE COURT: I will let Mr. Murphy ask a couple 21 of more questions about that. 22 MR. MURPHY: Now, the fact that you are 23 operations director at the airport, and the proof may 24 establish that the defendant, Ms. Kuglin, is a FedEx 25 employee, is that going to cause you any problems, are you VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 61 1 going to be worried about FedEx being mad at you no matter 2 how you decide the case? 3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. 4 MR. MURPHY: Now, Ms. Vasser, do you also work 5 for FedEx? 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do. 7 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Is it going to cause you a 8 problem if there's another FedEx employee here? 9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. 10 MR. MURPHY: It's not -- it's not going to 11 influence the way you decide the case? 12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. 13 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Because you understand 14 you're going to have to decide the case on the facts -- 15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Right. 16 MR. MURPHY: -- that you hear from the witness 17 stand and the law that the judge gives you? 18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 19 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Thank you. Now, do any of 20 you ladies and gentlemen know anything about this case? 21 Has anybody talked the case over with you? Have you heard 22 anything about it from any friends at church, anything 23 like that? 24 Now, does everybody understand that the 25 indictment is just a way to bring this proceeding about, VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 62 1 that it's not proof of guilt? Does everybody understand 2 that? 3 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 4 MR. MURPHY: Does everybody understand that Ms. 5 Kuglin, as she sits before you today, is presumed to be 6 innocent, do you understand that? 7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 8 MR. MURPHY: Okay. And do you also understand 9 that the government has the obligation of coming forward 10 and proving Ms. Kuglin guilty as charged in the indictment 11 beyond a reasonable doubt, does everybody understand that? 12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 13 MR. MURPHY: Does anybody think that the 14 government should be held to a lesser standard of proof? 15 THE JURY: No. 16 MR. MURPHY: By the same token, does anybody 17 think that the government ought to be held to a higher 18 standard of proof? Do you think we ought to have to prove 19 it beyond any doubt? You think we should have to prove it 20 beyond any doubt? 21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Beyond a shadow of a doubt. 22 MR. MURPHY: Now, the judge is going to 23 instruct you that the burden of proof in the case is 24 beyond a reasonable doubt, which is not beyond a shadow of 25 a doubt; is that going to be a problem? VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 63 1 THE COURT: One reason for that is there can 2 always be an unreasonable doubt. I mean is Elvis dead? I 3 mean who thinks Elvis is not dead? Elvis is alive. But 4 there are people who will believe that Elvis is -- and I 5 will tell you, my wife was a resident, Elvis is dead, 6 folks, I hate to tell you, you know, he's dead. There are 7 things that people have unreasonable doubts about. We 8 might wish that it wasn't the way it is in the case of 9 somebody like Mr. Presley, but it's not a reasonable 10 doubt. It's not based on reason and common sense. It's 11 really based upon emotion, usually. So beyond a shadow of 12 a doubt is not the standard. You know, that's -- you 13 know, can I prove to you -- I can probably prove to you 14 beyond a shadow of a doubt that Elvis is dead because 15 there's some physical evidence of his not being alive, but 16 for some things we can never prove it beyond all doubt, 17 it's just not possible. 18 I'm sorry, go ahead, Mr. Murphy. 19 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Judge. 20 But do you understand what the judge is 21 saying -- 22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 23 MR. MURPHY: -- beyond a reasonable doubt is 24 the standard that you're going to have to decide the case 25 on, okay? VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 64 1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 2 MR. MURPHY: Can everybody give a fair trial to 3 both sides? Can everybody be fair to the defendant? Can 4 everybody be fair to the government? 5 THE JURY: Yes. 6 MR. MURPHY: As usual, ladies and gentlemen, 7 I'm having trouble reading my own writing. 8 Do any of you, ladies and gentlemen, have any 9 family or friends that are involved in law enforcement, 10 work for the Sheriff's Department or federal agents, work 11 for the police department? Yes, sir. 12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: As part of my job, I'm a 13 police officer. 14 MR. MURPHY: You're a police officer at the 15 airport? 16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 17 MR. MURPHY: Are you a member of the Airport 18 Authority? 19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I am. 20 MR. MURPHY: Police department? 21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. I'm the director of 22 operations in public safety, which I have responsibility 23 for the police department. 24 MR. MURPHY: So you operate like the police 25 chief out there? VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 65 1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: The police chief reports to 2 me, yes. 3 MR. MURPHY: Anybody else? Any family members, 4 friends? Does anybody have any family members or friends 5 that work for the IRS? 6 Okay. Nobody will fess up to it, okay. 7 Yes, sir. 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a son that works for 9 the IRS. 10 MR. MURPHY: You have a son that works -- 11 THE COURT: We're going to pass the mic back. 12 One reason we pass the mic is that it goes through our 13 system here, and actually you folks back there can hear it 14 when we're speaking in the mic, can't you? And when we 15 don't speak into the mic, you can't hear. And they need 16 to be able to hear our answers, so just be sure that you 17 speak into that mic. 18 Have you got -- 19 MR. MURPHY: Well, it wasn't working. 20 THE COURT: Well, you just keep your voice up, 21 and you usually can be heard. If you can't hear Mr. 22 Murphy, let me know too. 23 MR. MURPHY: That's what my kids say anyway. 24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, I have a son that 25 works for the IRS. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 66 1 MR. MURPHY: And what does he do at the IRS? 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He work, you know, with 3 tax -- with the tax, you know, examiner, I believe that's 4 the title. 5 MR. MURPHY: So he examines people's income 6 taxes? 7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: If I'm not mistaken, yes. 8 MR. MURPHY: Now, the fact that your son works 9 for the IRS, is that going to cause you any problems? Is 10 it going to make it harder for you to be fair to the 11 defendant? 12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. 13 MR. MURPHY: Is it going to make it harder for 14 you to be fair to the government? 15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Loaded question. 16 MR. MURPHY: I believe this gentleman down 17 here, yes, sir. 18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I had friends some years 19 ago that were criminal investigators with the IRS. 20 MR. MURPHY: Is that going to cause you a 21 problem? 22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, it's not. 23 MR. MURPHY: If you were to vote not guilty in 24 this case, would that embarrass you with those friends? 25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I haven't even seen them in VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 67 1 the last 15 years, they have moved away. 2 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Thank you. 3 Is any -- are any of you, ladies and gentlemen, 4 employed by the federal government? 5 Yes, ma'am. 6 COURT SECURITY OFFICER: Pass the mic down. 7 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I work for USDA, the U. S. 8 Department of Agriculture. 9 MR. MURPHY: How long? 10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: For 26 years. 11 MR. MURPHY: What part of USDA? 12 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Cotton, cotton program. 13 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Do you work at the classing 14 office? 15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, uh-huh. 16 MR. MURPHY: The fact that the federal 17 government is bringing this case, is that going to cause 18 you any problems? 19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. 20 MR. MURPHY: Are you going to feel like you 21 have to vote guilty? 22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. 23 MR. MURPHY: And you can be fair to the 24 defendant? 25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 68 1 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Thank you, ma'am. 2 Have any of you, ladies and gentlemen, ever 3 served on a jury in a civil case? If you have, raise your 4 hands. 5 Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, do you understand 6 that there's six separate counts in this indictment? This 7 indictment charges six distinct crimes and that you're 8 going to be required to render a verdict as to each count 9 of the indictment. Does anybody have a problem with that? 10 Okay. And as the judge said, the number of charges 11 doesn't make a person guilty, everybody understands that? 12 Okay. Does anybody on the jury -- on the jury 13 panel, do you have a belief that you shouldn't be required 14 to pay taxes? That's different than you don't like paying 15 them, don't enjoy it. Do you think that tax laws are 16 unconstitutional or improper, or does anybody have 17 feelings like that? Okay. Does anybody have a problem 18 with the fact that some violations of the tax laws may be 19 criminal violations? You know, it's kind of like in drug 20 cases, you have some jurors sometimes that think marijuana 21 ought to be legalized and don't approve of prosecutions of 22 marijuana distributors, anybody feel like that, that the 23 tax laws -- that criminal charges shouldn't be brought for 24 tax violations? Nobody is saying anything. 25 Yes, sir. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 69 1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a feeling that our 2 tax laws are set up more for the rich folks instead of the 3 poor folks, being one of the poorer ones. 4 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Now, you understand that 5 the judge is going to instruct you what the law is in the 6 case, and you will have to follow that law without 7 consideration of that feeling; do you understand that? 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 9 THE COURT: Okay. Now, does that cause you a 10 problem? 11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Because that has nothing to 12 do with a defendant, because that is our law per se. 13 MR. MURPHY: There you go. Would you speak 14 into the microphone, sir? 15 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I said that has nothing to 16 do with a defendant, that's just the way our system works. 17 MR. MURPHY: Okay. 18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: We don't have a perfect 19 system, I think anybody would agree with that. 20 MR. MURPHY: Okay. But you're not going to 21 have any problem applying the law that the judge gives 22 you? 23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, sir. 24 THE COURT: If there's proof in the case that 25 this defendant made a high salary, you're not going to VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 70 1 hold that against her? 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. 3 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Thank you, sir. 4 Have any of you, ladies and gentlemen, ever 5 worked as income tax preparers or have accounting degrees, 6 anything like that? I know, ma'am, you said you worked at 7 a CPA office? 8 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My ex-husband was a CPA and 9 I worked for 18 years of just preparing tax returns. I 10 didn't do the actual -- the CPAs in the firm did the 11 interaction with the IRS, but I did prepare tax returns. 12 I don't do that now, but I did. 13 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Do you have any bad 14 feelings about the IRS based on your experience working 15 with the CPA firm? 16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, if anything, it helped 17 me feel better. I learned that you didn't have to fear 18 it, the people -- that the IRS does their information on 19 the information that they have, and the tax accountants' 20 role is to help them, if they have information the IRS 21 does not have, and so it didn't leave negative feelings 22 about the IRS. 23 MR. MURPHY: You understand that if you're 24 selected on the jury, you're going to have to decide the 25 case based on the facts that are admitted into evidence VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 71 1 and the law as the judge gives it to you? 2 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Uh-huh. 3 MR. MURPHY: Do you understand that? 4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 5 THE COURT: And do you understand you can't go 6 back, and if you're selected as a juror, you say, well, 7 now, wait a second, when I was with the CPA firm, they did 8 it this way? 9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, yes, sir, I 10 understand that. And this is so much back in the past -- 11 in fact, I had just about even forgot this, that I should 12 bring this up. I am a pastor of a church now, so my world 13 doesn't evolve around the -- this world now. 14 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Mr. Salaam, have you ever 15 done any taxes or anything like that? They're going to 16 pass you the mic. 17 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I haven't. 18 MR. MURPHY: Because you talked about it being 19 a 7201 charge. 20 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I've studied prelaw at St. 21 Louis University some, and I've attended a lot of trials, 22 but never did anything with taxes but pay them. 23 MR. MURPHY: What kind of trials did you 24 attend? 25 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: All type. I participated VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 72 1 in the King trial, all 30 days with Dr. William Peppers. 2 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Were you helping Dr. 3 Peppers in the presentation of that case or were you just 4 there? 5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I served as security 6 for the King family. 7 MR. MURPHY: Okay. I believe on the jury sheet 8 it says you work for one of the local funeral homes? 9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 10 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Are you a security officer? 11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I'm a family counselor, 12 family service counselor, and sometimes a funeral 13 director. 14 MR. MURPHY: Okay. How long have you worked at 15 Memphis Funeral Home? 16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Forest Hill. 17 MR. MURPHY: Forest Hill, I'm sorry. 18 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That's the other guy. 19 MR. MURPHY: That's the competition. Forest 20 Hill. 21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: About a year and a half. 22 MR. MURPHY: Okay. 23 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a family business 24 too. 25 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Now, what you learned in VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 73 1 school and the prelaw courses and what you learned by 2 sitting in this these trials, you understand that's not 3 something that you can use in this case because the judge 4 will instruct you on the law, and the facts may be 5 different, all that sort of thing? 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I understand it. I'm 7 glad you understand it too. 8 MR. MURPHY: Okay. I don't know. Sometimes I 9 don't understand it. It's just engrained in us, in 10 lawyers, things have got to be just so-so. 11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: All right. 12 MR. MURPHY: Okay. I'm down to my last 13 question, ladies and gentlemen. And lawyers are kind of 14 like Baptist ministers, finally does not necessarily mean 15 immediately. Is there anything about this case or 16 anything that y'all think the lawyers and the judge ought 17 to know that hasn't come up? Anything we haven't asked 18 that you think that we should have? 19 Okay. Well, with that, I will sit down, ladies 20 and gentlemen. Thank you. 21 THE COURT: We're going to go until -- no, 22 we're ready, we're fine, we will go until about 25, 27 23 after, and then we will take our lunch break, and I will 24 have to give you -- I will have to have a couple of 25 minutes to tell them the rules about those sorts of VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 74 1 things, so you have got about 10 minutes. 2 MR. BECRAFT: I will just tell you that you can 3 wave your hand and cut me off any place. 4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I will just speak up. 5 MR. BECRAFT: Ladies and gentlemen, my name is 6 Larry Becraft, and I'm here to represent Vernie Kuglin, 7 who is the defendant in this case. And, of course, the 8 other fellow over here is Bob Bernhoft, and my question to 9 you is, first and foremost, has anybody ever met Vernie 10 Kuglin, heard about her or heard about her lawyers? How 11 about -- you know, some people -- the U. S. Attorney's 12 office is one floor below, a lot of people work down 13 there, do any of you know or are you socially acquainted 14 with anybody that works in the U. S. Attorney's office? 15 Whether it is an attorney -- yes, Mr. White. 16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 17 MR. BECRAFT: You know someone? And who would 18 that be? 19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Terry Harris. 20 MR. BECRAFT: Okay. The U. S. Attorney? 21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. 22 MR. BECRAFT: Are you socially acquainted with 23 him? 24 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Not socially, 25 professionally. VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 75 1 MR. BECRAFT: So out at the airport, the 2 U. S. Attorney's office has some dealings with the 3 security out there, and that's the way you've met him and 4 worked with him, correct? 5 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 6 MR. BECRAFT: Okay. Is there anything about 7 that relationship that would maybe cause you to be 8 favorable to the government and simply because you know 9 the man that runs the office? 10 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, sir. 11 MR. BECRAFT: So you can cast that aside if 12 you're picked as a juror? 13 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir. 14 MR. BECRAFT: Is there anyone else that knows, 15 you know, either the lawyers or the investigators or 16 anybody else that might work in that office? 17 Now, we're going to have in this case -- you 18 know, we're going to bring in some people from the IRS, 19 some people from the Service Center, it is going to be IRS 20 people that are going to take the witness stand, and my 21 question to you at this time is this: You know, are you 22 going to be giving to anybody that is a government 23 employee greater credence to their testimony just because 24 they work for the government? Anybody that is going to be 25 leaning in the direction of giving greater credence to VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 76 1 somebody that works for the government rather than giving 2 the same type of credence you would for any other witness? 3 I take it most of you are -- or, in fact, all 4 of you, is there anybody here who does not live in Shelby 5 County? And you, Mr. White? 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Vedder. 7 MR. BECRAFT: Vedder, I'm sorry. How far away 8 do you live from the courthouse? 9 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Tipton County. 10 MR. BECRAFT: And you live where? 11 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Lauderdale County. 12 MR. BECRAFT: And how long does it take y'all 13 to get to court? 14 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: It takes me an hour and a 15 half. 16 MR. BECRAFT: An hour and a half? 17 THE COURT: Where do you live in Lauderdale 18 County? 19 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Halls, Tennessee. 20 THE COURT: Halls, okay. And I'm sorry, where 21 do you live in Tipton County? 22 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: It took me about 45 23 minutes. 24 THE COURT: And you live in which part of 25 Tipton County? VOIR DIRE OF THE JURY 77 1 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Drummonds. 2 THE COURT: I live in Rosemark, which is one 3 mile south of the line -- 4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah. 5 THE COURT: I used to work in Covington. 6 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Drummonds. 7 THE COURT: Drummonds, okay, yeah, yeah. Just 8 to get an idea. It may not be quite as familiar. I think 9 those are distances -- I know anybody from Tipton County, 10 we always end up asking them to drive back and forth. 11 People from further away, if it takes a long time, we'll 12 actually enter an order and let you stay in a hotel, if we 13 can get a hotel room in the downtown area if it becomes a 14 problem. A lot of people prefer to commute. Anybody from 15 as far north as Dyersburg, I usually suggest that they 16 stay overnight, just so far -- that's just such a long 17 drive. I need to let you know that, and you wouldn't 18 necessarily know that was the policy on trips. Go right 19 ahead. 20 MR. BECRAFT: Thank you, Your Honor. Anybody