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20th Anniv. Memorial, Mt. Carmel Massacre, Pt 3, Catherine Messenger
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Jun 5, 2025
20th Anniv. Memorial, Mt. Carmel Massacre, Pt 3, Catherine Messenger
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0:07
11 I'm gonna ask Katherine wesinger she
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could come up
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right Katherine spoke at the Symposium
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yesterday at
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[Music]
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B Catherine has helped three survivors
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myself
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included uh WR their biy
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she's also written books in her
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own WR which included chapters on on wo
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and what happened
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here and uh she's also a good friend
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[Applause]
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so well it looks like dick has walked
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out of the room for a minute I wanted to
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compliment him on his book um and the
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fact that he was uh the first person to
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um interview the survivors and uh I
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started my research by reading his book
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and uh it's very informative I was very
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moved by it and uh the fact that he
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wrote his book directly led to my own
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research in part of course I was very
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concerned about what happened and and
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that's um you know my motivating um uh
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reason for coming out here and
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especially after I had the chance to
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meet the branch to Indians and I think
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it was in 2003 I was at Baylor uh no it
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was not 2003 it would have been probably
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2002 I was at Baylor for a symposium
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another Symposium and Stuart after which
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Stuart Wright my colleague Stuart Wright
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uh had invited a number of the survivors
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to come in and that's when I met so I
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think that was maybe 2002 and then of
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course I was out here for the memorial
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uh in
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2003 and um by that time I had had an
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opportunity to beet with Clive and
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Sheila and Bonnie Alderman and also
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Katherine Madison several times so I
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felt like I was getting to know them and
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um when I was at the memorial in 2003
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afterwards I made a resolution that if
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they would allow me to interview them I
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would try I would Endeavor to produce an
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autobiography for each one and and I'm I
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want to stress I'm not here to plug the
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books but the books are out there on the
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table but what I I want to say is that
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the books are significant because they
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through the lives of the individuals
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that I interviewed at at Great link uh
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we learn about the history of the branch
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dividian we learn about uh the events
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that happened in '92 and then especially
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in
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93 uh Through The Eyes of um these surv
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survivors who who told me their stories
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and uh especially in cly's book there's
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a whole chapter on Branch deidan
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theology with like they told um dick
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Revis when he tried to start talking
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with them you don't ran deidan theology
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is very complex you don't it does it is
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not conveyed in a sound bite and um uh
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cly spent a great deal of time
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explaining Branch deidan theology to me
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and uh I mean Clyde uh proof you know
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his book is the latest one it came out
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in this last year and of course
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everything in the book C proof for it
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and corrected and so it is his words
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um uh I'll also say that in all three of
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the autobiographies one for Bonnie Hall
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one for uh Sheila Martin and one for um
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Clive um there are extensive endnotes
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added to the back and that's so the
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voice of the survivors are in the text
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it's their story told in their own words
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words but I've added as much information
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as I had at that particular point in
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time about the events in 93 so uh if
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you're you're interested in all that uh
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you should read the end turn to the back
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read the endnotes also as well as uh
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their stories but I think um here at
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this time of the memorial it's um very
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important to say that uh all three of
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the autobiographies tell the story of
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all the people in the community you know
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when it through the memories of Bonnie
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and uh Sheila and Clive and um so you're
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not just learning about their life
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stories you're learning about the lives
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of all the people uh I know them by name
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now I know what they look like look like
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back then um you know we've heard their
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voices um those of us who listen to the
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audio tapes we've heard their voices and
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um so we really know these people as who
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are U no longer here with us um I also
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at this time want to make a plea to um
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scholars in the room there are more
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Branch dividian to be interviewed uh a
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number of them live here in
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Waco um and um if anybody wants to know
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my suggestions about who can be
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interviewed I'll be happy to give those
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but I also want to make a plea to um the
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survivors here in the room that it's
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important to um record your story
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somehow you know uh in a published book
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up on the blog uh maybe on a
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website uh even if you write something
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down and put it in an archive there are
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a lot of ways to um preserve your
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stories for for uh people in the future
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who are
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interested um Clive's kind of stepped
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out of the room I wanted to hand the
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microphone back to him there he is but
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uh before I give the microphone back to
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him I want to say that um I'm interested
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in uh viewing the video of the press
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briefings uh back in 93 I was a working
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mother my son was small and I honestly I
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was not watching TV much back then so I
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wasn't watching the um press briefings
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and um I know you know a number of you
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in here have uh cameras I'm willing to
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bet that some of you might have been
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taping those press briefings and if
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you've got some tapes of press briefings
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that you could share with me I
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appreciate that because I think a study
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needs to be done of the press briefings
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because uh I I certainly believe that um
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dick is right that about the purposes of
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those U press briefings so I um I
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encourage you to take a look at the
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autobiographies of um and at this point
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in time it's for us to remember all of
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the people who are are whose stories are
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told through the autobiographies and
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then the rest of the survivors please uh
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find a way to record your stories also
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so thank you
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[Applause]
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