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Clive Doyle: Anecdotes following the assault on Mount Carmel
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Jun 5, 2025
Outside the Helen Marie Taylor Museum.
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photographer he says "I work with the
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uh Taran County
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uh Taran County
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uh what do you call
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it?" And where they do the autopsies
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medical examiner medical examiner he
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says "I work with them and I've got this
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series of pictures and uh I'm looking to
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sell them all sort of thing you know."
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So Ron and another guy and myself went
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up to Fort Worth met this
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guy and he's showing us all these
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pictures i says
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"Sir how much you wanting for?" I think
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he wanted like
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$40,000 i said
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"Uh and uh these are never been issued
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he never Nobody else has got any of
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these right these are all fresh sort of
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thing you know one of a kind well no uh
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the media's got them and somebody else
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has got them and I I think the feds had
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them i says "You want $4,000 for stuff
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that's already out you know floating
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around?"
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And so anyway we sat there looking and
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uh he he had
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shots of the room which was serving area
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of the
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cafeteria right outside the
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vault and it's got all of
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these
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cans all over the place i mean it's like
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you had them all stacked up and they all
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fell down at big heat
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but they're they're all shiny
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we go how
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where's this picture taken they got all
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these shiny you know i said if they went
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through the fire you'd think they'd be
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burned or they'd be blackened with soot
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or whatever you know here they're all
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shiny you know well they were but we
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decided to clean them up one day he's
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showing us all the bodies that they had
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at the at the m you know
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and he had them in series
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like six pictures on each
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page or maybe eight
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anyway he had this table with a bowl in
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it with all this black stuff in the
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bowl and then he's got all these you
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know charred bodies around it in these
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other pictures he says "What's that on
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the table?" He said "Ah." He says "That
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was our lunch." She says "We we ordered
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teriyak chicken and uh we thought that
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would be funny to put in it in with all
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the pictures of the bodies." You
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know you know get in the way of slap
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somebody
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so we didn't buy his picture i says
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"Tell me something you worked for the
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medical examiner's office right so
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you're the official photographer uh you
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went out to the site you took pictures
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out there and you took all the pictures
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in the at the mall uh as they're doing
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this stuff he says "Yes." I says
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"Uh so you got paid for doing that was
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your job so you you got paid for taking
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these pictures right?" Well yes i says
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"And uh they probably bought the
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negatives and paid for the processing
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and all that." Well yes but I didn't get
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paid enough i did a lot of overtime that
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I didn't get
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You know I thought what a mercenary
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well it's also illegal it's would be
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county property sure i says I'm I'm not
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interested i'm ticked off to begin with
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and I'm not interested in giving you
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$40,000 for something that's not yours
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belongs to to the
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county so should have filed criminal
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charges but he he uh he did tell us that
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while they were operating on them all
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they were just having a L that was a
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you know joking and carrying on all all
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the time that's normal when they're
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cutting off people's bodies and trying
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to figure out
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stuff you're not winning me not a job
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not a job that I want to do but I don't
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think I think I have a one more time
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be bad enough if you were showing the
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FBI the pictures and all joking about it
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but you're showing relatives and and
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people that
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have you know it's just happened to you
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so it's inconceivable yeah
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well like I said the thing is after it
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was all over you know I tell people I
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said I don't
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hate individual agents you know officers
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and police or sheriff's department or
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even the ATF or the FBI they're not
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taught to hate david used to always say
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you know people are people no matter who
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they are what they are souls to be saved
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possibility of being saved so I said I
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don't hate them but it's
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uh you know
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it's what happened
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and the attitudes that they've continued
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to have
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doesn't help you love
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them you uh certainly don't trust him
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his any agents ever came back and said
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"I'm sorry."
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Or the sheriff sheriff did what did he
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say when McNaldi made his first
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documentary he showed it at a Thank you
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very much at a place at I think it was a
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hotel downtown and he invited
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uh he invited
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Cher Jack
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Harwell to to the viewing and I
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went he hugged me and he was almost in
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tears you know and uh so then
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Um one day he called me he says "Can we
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get
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together?" He said "I'm real real upset
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about
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uh you know the death of the children
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bothered me all never got over it." He
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said "I'd like to tell you a few
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things." Since the the day that they
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came out it was negotiated that they
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wanted David to come out and talk to
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them up at the front of the property and
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it was agreed that the whole thing would
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be done no weapons you know kind of on
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neutral ground where there'd be no
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threat of anyone being shot or hurt or
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whatever and David bowed out but he he
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asked Wayne Martin and Steve Schneider
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to go up and talk to him and so they
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they walk up to the front of the
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property near the gate and the uh this
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Bradley comes in armored
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vehicle and uh the back end opens up and
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all these guys jump out with their guns
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trained up Steve and
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Wayne and
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uh so anyway it's like drizzling rain
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and they talk for a while and eventually
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Steve and Wayne come
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tell us how scared they were that they
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were either going to be shot or grabbed
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or whatever but uh
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Jack Harwell told me on the phone he
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says he says "You know that day we came
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out he says the plan was that we were to
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lure them over to the back of Bradley
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and grab them put them in there." First
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of all they wanted to get David but they
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they were going to do it to Wayne and
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and they would probably gunned him down
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right there and then gun next to him
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jack Harwell opposed them jack Harwell
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opposed them he says that's not what the
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negotiators agreed upon you know that's
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not that wasn't the plan and so he
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jumped out of the back of the deal and
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walked over to the where they were
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standing because when they saw the tank
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drive in and these guys jumping out they
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kind of froze you know so they were a
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little distance from from the Bradley
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and he
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says he said "So the the FBI
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guy walked over so there was like four
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of them standing there talking." And he
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says "But when we got back in the tank,"
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he said "Boy
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he you know chewed him up one side and
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down the other for messing up the their
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plan to duck Wayne and
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Steve." Well that's not what you set up
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you're going to go back on the deal he
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said "I don't think that's
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right." So anyway he says "Can can we
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get
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together coffee or
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whatever i really like to talk." He says
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there's things I want to say that I
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can't tell my family and
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uh and I just like someone to talk to
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sort of that knows what I'm going
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through and within a few days he was
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dead and I went to his the I went to the
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viewing i didn't go to the funeral i
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went to the
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viewing and uh I talked to his widow and
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his son one of his
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sons and he kind of confirms my dad's
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been upset ever since this happened he
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says and he won't talk to us about it we
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know that he's
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troubled and uh like I said he was going
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to tell me something which I never got
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to hear how do you die
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well in a bathroom the official story
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and the rumors are two different things
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you know some said there was blood all
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over the bathroom now I don't think
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that's a heart attack you know so I I
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don't know i didn't do any autopsies i
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wasn't there i can't our government's
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just That's what they do they It's just
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But he he had announced that he was
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going to go public with some information
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what was the sheriff's name again
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harwell
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i think the guy the guy that became he
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was in office for a long time everybody
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liked him the guy even the criminal no
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he was just real old i I don't know
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exactly how the guy that took his place
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no that's was the lieutenant
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that took the 911 call larry Lynch he
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wasn't quite so friendly i went and
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talked to him after at one point too
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i don't know he would talk to me but he
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had an attitude you know and uh then he
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got into trouble misappropriation funds
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or something so the last election they
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had the guy that gets elected as the
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sheriff that we got now he was the
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bodyguard for Judge Walter Smith oh jeez
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you know
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I didn't know he was Walter Smith's
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bodyguard well him and his brothers they
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were federal marshals you know it it
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seems like you know I was uh doing some
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research on when Hinckley shot uh Reagan
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and Hinckley was friends with the Bush
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family and hung out with the boys i mean
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this stuff is just
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keeps on going unbelievable
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how about those Dallas Cowboys though
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what do you think just I don't know did
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that
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if you can accept the position of this
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if you look at it back it was a little
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different this year it was good
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right
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there may be a few people that talked to
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me on the phone and they said well who's
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your guest speaking I said they're going
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to have to put up with me said they
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don't have any guest speakers this week
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and I don't know how serious the problem
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is I don't They came anyway
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okay um did your uh professor from
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Loyola come yeah she was here might be
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sufficient she's here she
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was still used to
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She's the one that helped us all right
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what's this these are This
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is my card it's none of my business
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i don't even know what it is you want me
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to get you one
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i'm going i could use one
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hey can I get
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I get one you want to sign this it might
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be worth some money one day
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hey it is selling movie rights
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so Clive over the years I've seen them
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the news media and stuff try to set you
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up with questions you know that try to
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make you look bad and you've always
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answered them just about as well as I
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could think of anybody to answer but
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maybe I missed an interview did you ever
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just tell somebody you know did you ever
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did you you always been so so your
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demeanor's always been very uh and I was
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just thinking man I could not do that
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paul called me up couple weeks back
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he had a friend
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got one of these
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magazine she wants to ask us some
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questions so we in that for about an
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hour she just throwing everything that
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come into her mind and I
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and so
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he got off the phone
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then Paul called back another day and he
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says he said you know all the answers
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you get wasted
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it doesn't matter how clear how good
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your answers are if your mind's made up
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you don't get to first base you know i
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say "Well you can only try." And so
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uh this friend apparently ganged up on
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him with another friend of his a guy and
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they got all over it the other day
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he called me he says "I've got to go to
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a speaking engagement if I pay for your
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plane fair will you come out and kind of
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be with me
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should I'm supposed to fly out to
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California on Tuesday
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so is everybody going out to the Mount
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Carmel Center now uh I don't think so
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i'm ready to
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You ever go out we've been there a
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couple of times
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yeah we were out there last month last
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month spent about six hours listening to
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Charlie
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