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Eyes on Texas - Constitution Day 2013
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Jun 5, 2025
Peggy Venable of Americans for Prosperity interviews Jon Roland of the Constitution Society on Constitution Day, September 17, 2013, in Austin, Texas http://constitution-day.org/events
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good afternoon I'm Peggy bellable and you're watching eyes on Texas you're on
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uh Lori Bartlett's Internet TV network on point
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broadcasting we're so glad you're with us today this is September 17th and it is Constitution Day as I refer to it and
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many of us do but we have a real expert in the studio today John Roland who is
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the founder and president of the conscious Constitution Society is in the
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studio with us and we're going to be talking about Constitution Day and how that came about and what that means John
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thank you so much for joining us thank you everybody thank you well it's great
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to have you here and we've been excited to celebrate Constitution week this week
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and today Tuesday September 17th as Constitution Day but just before the
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cameras were rolling we were talking about the history of Constitution Day and the fact that it really had a
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different name if you could give us a little bit of that history on what we now refer to as Constitution Day
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well many of the states we're calling it citizenship day for many years
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and uh Congress passed the bill designating it as
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a Constitution Day they didn't make it an official day off type of holiday but they did
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designate it as such then in 2004 Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia
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introduced an amendment which required all schools receiving federal funds
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to celebrate Constitution Day on or about September 17th of each year
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which means that if they don't if they can in principal lose federal funds
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so after that they started taking it seriously
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and uh but it's been they've been very slow to comply
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last year or there were very few schools that celebrated it
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a notable exception was our local Austin Community College
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and uh but I've been promoting it across the country I set up a website
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constitution.day.org let me repeat that for folks who may be
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listening in because I'm looking at it now and it's Constitution Dash day dot o
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r g and then you have on there just a list of events if they hit on the events
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right 10 this year for the first time that I've been able to find
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there are events in all 50 states in the District of Columbia that have websites
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maybe not websites of the sponsored organizations but at least websites
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perhaps on local Media newspapers or other media in which the schools have
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announced it and provided details so uh previously it was made might just
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be obscure a little uh entry in a events calendar but no details
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so this year the beginning to pick up the phase and I've been putting out toward to the
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on the internet for people to check with your schools in your area to see if
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they're in compliance and if they're not to remind them that they could lose their Federal funding if they don't wow
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we you've been very successful and certainly in looking at this list I'm
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looking at your website right now a lot of them seem to be colleges and
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universities of some cities and other entities are hosting events tell me a
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little bit about why are the colleges hosting the events was the bird Senator
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Burns recommendation for K-12 or was it for
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all schools all schools higher ed and K-12 although it's interesting because
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the first and second tier colleges universities are underrepresented in
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this list the community colleges and private colleges are much more in compliance
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federal funds that's a good point I do see though Texas A M College Station is
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listed so that's a a top-notch University of Houston Victoria
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um but I haven't found a lot for the University of University of Texas you know you may
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oh baby uh about just that but this is a very impressive list of events and
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activities and you mentioned one of them at Austin Community College isn't taking place today but next week is that right
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next on the 24th uh I hold not so far of
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all the events such events that I've looked at they seem to have by far the
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best what they do is they gather to gather several hundred students
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uh they seat them at tables typically maybe eight or ten per table
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and then allow up two two or three you know maybe two or three four tables
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they're grouped together on one topic each group of tables is given a topic
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and they sit around they discussed the issues
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aspects of or sections of the Constitution well but in particular
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current live issues issues that could come before The Supreme Court at any
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time and then um toward the end of the program they get
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together and decide pick one person to represent the pro side and another to
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represent the Khan's side and then they stand up with the microphone and they
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have a few minutes to debate to make their points arguing for their position now there are no winners or losers but
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there is a critique in which the the debate coach sounds like you might have had a little
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bit to do with helping them plan this event because it sounds like it is a real education event yeah actually I
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didn't I've just been a uh assisting at the tables with the students when they
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had questions on constitutional points well it sounds like a great a great idea and you can find out more information
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about that event and a lot of other events by going to Constitution Dash day
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dot o r g and then uh forward slash events and there's an enormous listing
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of events around the country I know John that you just came from the Texas
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Capitol and that you had an event there at the Capitol can you tell our viewers
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a little bit about that event yes it was uh
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involved a number of different groups we all came together for one occasion on
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people's unconstitution day a fell that starting at 1 pm uh right on the south steps of the
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Capitol which is an excellent place to hold such events we have beautiful weather
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and a good participation and several of us gave speeches and
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got acquainted and uh committed one another to continue our
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work on the field that's just super well I know you came you came here directly from that event
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and I want to say thank you so much for doing so yeah it's just a short walk from here it is a short walk to the
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studio but it's a warm day I think here now tell me a little bit about what you
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see as the challenges when it comes to our constitution so many of us take for
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granted um the Constitution that we have the privilege of living under but our
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forefathers really fought to provide us with this framework for American
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exceptionalism that we have the privilege of enjoying tell me how you
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first got involved and how you why you created the Constitution Society
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well actually I first read the Constitution when I was seven years old and uh became fascinated with it tried
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to learn as much as I could about it you know long before I think it came up in public school
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but As I Grew Older I also came to realize that the government was in substantial violation of it
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and that bothered me but I couldn't find enough people other people who seem to be similarly bothered
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so that just uh nod on me you know for many years of course in the meantime I
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kept learning more and more uh eventually I joined the Air Force
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and formally took the oath to preserve protect and defend the Constitution and I'm not going to take an oath unless
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I take it seriously and that means learning to understand what this thing
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is that I'm obligating myself to preserve protect and defend and what it
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requires of me so I set out to make myself an expert on the subject
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but it was really the uh not so much the the massacre of the
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Davidians in 1993 but the trial of the Davidians in 1994
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that was the Tipping Point for me because I essentially
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Drew my own mental Line in the Sand for the government it says here's your opportunity to get it right in court
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when we're out of the heat of battle but if you you know if you violate the
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rights of the Davidians and the way you conduct this trial and I made a long list of the ways they
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could commit judicial and prosecutorial misconduct
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then watched as not actually unexpectedly they checked out every one
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of the items on my list and added a few more I haven't thought of well let's just in case our viewers
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don't remember the Branch Davidian situation and that case could you I know
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we just have a half hour so I don't want to spend too much on that but you make an excellent point that that's a great
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example of where the government overstepped their constitutional bounds could you just for our viewers give them
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a little overview what happened in outside Waco at the Branch Davidian compound and then the resulting
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action that the government took well on February 28th they allegedly tried to
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serve a warrant which they did not actually have in their hands for the rest of David Perez the leader
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of the Davidians and the search for illegal so-called illegal weapons
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which would essentially be weapons in which a 200 tax had not been paid
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and there were no such weapons at the time but for some reason shooting started
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we think that what happened was that some of the ATF agents shot some of the
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dogs and others thought that Davidians had fired on them when it was really their
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own agents they were shooting dogs so they started pouring lead into the
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building including actor Ash who was at the doorway
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and then the dividend started firing back in return in defense so the Davidians had Firearms yes but we think
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were they were not converted to full automatic at the on February 28th now
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there is reason to think that the some of them were converted during the standoff which continued until April
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19th when the FBI uh moved in using tanks to knock down
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the walls of the building insert flammable gas into the building and a fire started
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which we think was delivered on the part of the government so I guess um
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we're talking about Constitution Day and we are that incident came up but I guess in in
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a bigger picture that is maybe a microcosm of what's wrong that our federal government is so overstepped the
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Constitutional bounds that our forefathers had envisioned and that is I
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think um probably not that rare but a very extreme case of that I guess many of us
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that watch Washington and much of what goes on in Washington DC and in Congress
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and what the president does is overstepping the bounds of the Constitution I guess some of us would
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think there's a very uh Infamous situation right now with Obamacare and
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the health care act could you talk a little bit about how how Congress
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um and this President may have overstepped the Constitutional bounds or if they have what concerns you may have
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now well of course it's not just this kind of session of Congress or this president
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this is just the culmination of many many decades in fact the major
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departures of from the Constitution started about 1819 with the Supreme
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Court of case of malcolami V Maryland and it's been sliding downhill ever
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since now once in a while the Supreme Court will recognize some right
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correctly but they're only having to do that because they previously wrongly
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recognized the exercise of some power of that the federal government doesn't have
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so there's sometimes a backtrack a little bit to carve out a right from a power that they shouldn't be exercising
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in the first place but it's been the decisions that sustained powers that
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have been the main problem so the Supreme Court really has the ultimate
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ability to make decision or they're not a law or an action is constitutional and it they're they're
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human beings appointed by the president and confirmed by the
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Senate are what what can we as Citizens do to
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protect our Constitution and I guess what you would my first say is we first need to know the Constitution right
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correct and that's not as easy as a lot of people think because the Constitution was written in
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a legal English of 1787. which is not either the ordinary English
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or the legal English we use today there are also a number of Provisions in
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terms of it which are unfamiliar to Modern readers
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and which from our the Viewpoint of people reading
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them today are ambiguous now they were not as ambiguous to the people who wrote them
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but they had the advantage of several centuries of Education if the law
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leading up to 1787. and almost no one studies that today
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except a few legal historians so uh uh to backtrack a little bit after the
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the way that I saw the way the trial was going I formed the Constitutional Society
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and later the following year so we're back to the Branch Davidian trial my
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apologies I did take us off that topic so you're telling us a pound what got you really started in in establishing
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the constitution of society right I figured that at that point there needed to be an organized effort
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I also felt that uh there would be armed revolt on the part of the American
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people many of the American people if this sort of thing continued
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and if we didn't organize them to resist constructively
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so I set out to build a movement that would return us to strict compliance
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with the Constitution without the need to resort to violence
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and I think I've been reasonably successful in that I know a lot of people who were disposed
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to violence who have been turned away from violence toward constructive political efforts excellent
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um when I first got started when I first created the website
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in 1995 I found there was almost nothing on the
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web the inner the World Wide Web you know in the way of constitutional materials
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and your website for constitution Society is what constitution.org
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okay and so I set out first of all I just I wanted to have the
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documents myself so I just let me say I'm shocked that you got constitution.org wow wow congratulations
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uh I wanted to off all the documents that anyone would need to decide
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constitutional questions and the easiest way to even have them
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for my own use was to scan them with a scanner convertedly them into digital
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Pages which could just as easily be web pages which are searchable
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so I can quickly search through them to find anything I want on any subject then of course the natural thing was to
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put that on a website so I figure that eventually uh I would
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be overtaken that the government or universities or other things would would
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eventually have all this material online and I could you know just like just like sit back and link to
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that right well that has never happened wow they've never caught up
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in fact a lot of them even have mistakes that I have to I have the corrected version on my website that they lack on
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theirs so we have not only a most complete collection of constitutional documents
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but the most accurate you know that's so amazing and you
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've uh largely I have had volunteers helping with the scanning and the corrections and all that but I usually
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wind up having to come in and go over their corrections to correct their Corrections let me ask since you know so
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much about the Constitution and it's something that we all live under and
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should know a lot about how first in the constitution do you believe Americans
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are today not at all I mean it's a it's pathetic
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and what do you attribute that to is it a lack of a lack of Education lack of interest uh
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tell me what your thinking is in regard to that well it's a lack of commitment on the part of parents and teachers
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in the middle of the 19th century uh kids were practically asked to memorize
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the Constitution we have an example of a textbook from
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1854 which was uh the model at first time and
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basically all it was is a a textbook on the Constitution
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and uh uh what grade would that advantage that would have been uh what today we would
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call High School our Early College now when I went to a public school we
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did have American government in fact we had a textbook that came right out and said that most of the
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stuff done under the Commerce Clause would have been considered unconstitutional by the framers
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and I said aha so uh there were glimmers even then but I've
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done some substitute teaching at the high school and middle school level and
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we don't have very much of that anymore I was also involved in uh
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cleaning up the textbooks used by the state of Texas right I remember I think
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that may be when we met 10 or 12 or more years ago that my testimony is I made
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videos of it it's online and uh there was one textbook in
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particular you remember that incident since 1950 they have been teaching that informal
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amendments of the Constitution were just as good as formal ones and uh when I saw that I said that this
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either this textbook has to be Rewritten or it has to go right and they were right up to the last
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minute until with they finally got the author but it was consent was needed to cave in
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and agree to rewriting that textbook you know that's how that shows power when
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you're able to get a textbook corrected that frankly had been wrong for so many years and and our NATO correction well
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let me just ask this question what can we do we as Citizens um I'm with Americans for Prosperity and
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uh many of the the groups and the individuals that I work with in Texas really have a great respect for the
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Constitution and want to see our government adhere
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strictly to the Constitution what can we do to try to make that happen well first
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of all make constitutional compliance and issue at every election
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there's a tendency for people to dwell on policy issues
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entity to neglect the Constitution but ever so often you have to stand up
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and say this policy is unconstitutional in fact it may even be a policy that you
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like you know I've had to have been in some policy positions of my own because I
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came to realize they were unconstitutional and but you know what I discovered
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that in almost every case it was possible to solve the same problem within the
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constraints of the Constitution and that if you just tried to find a solution that was constitutional you
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would use almost always be a better solution
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still be withstanding all of these Generations yeah I don't think they
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realize that at the time right they had a lot of doubts about their their word product in 17 September 17 1787.
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a lot of people have come to the conclusion uh you don't even have to be a religious
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believer that this was divinely inspired
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Mike yeah I I think this is comes the closest thing we have to a Latter Day
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scripture
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let me just as you've been engaged in textbooks and know pretty much what's in the in the
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classroom of what isn't in the classroom across the country today what can we do
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to try to improve the education
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the citizenship and Constitution education going on in our schools
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well the first thing is somebody needs to Simply go over what it is a
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government does and review it for its constitutionality and make it clear to everyone students
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teachers officials everyone else journalists that this is constitutional and that is
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not a lot of it is going to be unconstitutional and when it's not unconstitutional they
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need to be able to explain why for example 95 of all Federal Criminal
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statutes are based not on the Constitution but on the court decision wickard V filbert from 1942
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which sustained the criminal prosecution of a farmer from eating his own cork that was subject to price and production
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controls there's no Authority in the Constitution for that and yet because
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the they had to have that precedent now something they can seize on the precedent to pass all these Federal
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Criminal statutes
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I'd like to to leave our viewers with
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some nuggets of your wisdom it sounds like it's
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that it's not a hopeless situation I hope but
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it sounds like we are losing this battle and you make it sound like this it
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sounds like it's a tough thing for us to do to if so many laws are unconstitutional the federal government
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is acting outside the Constitutional limits um
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I'm assuming that you're saying that educating the public on the Constitution isn't enough what what do you think
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needs well it seemed hopeless when I started the Constitution society and opened my website
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however the so much support has now grown around
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uh my efforts and those of many other good people that is no longer hopeless
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now we have uh elections in which constitutionalists are actually winning
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Rand Paul Ted Cruz yes perhaps me if I win the nomination of my party for the
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U.S Senate for 19 2014. and uh understand you are on the ballot
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that's right well not yet
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as the leader of the and founder of the Constitution Society but I'm delighted
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for you to share that information without yours um so you're saying that uh
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we haven't gone too far down the wrong path yet that we can still turn things
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around if we get the right people elected to office yeah but I'm afraid now we're in another kind of situation
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because of our very poor fiscal and monetary management
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not only in this country but around the world I'm afraid we're headed toward a another
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world depression that will make the one of the 30s seem trivial by comparison
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and you recall that one led to a second world war and to uh you know
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hundreds of millions of deaths uh today we didn't have nuclear weapons
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then except at the very end of it so the stakes are very high
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and I'm concerned that if we go into a in a collapse like that and we're not
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prepared to come out on the other side and so that the dictatorship comes to
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Reign Over mankind instead of a return to constitutional Republican government
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that the fire of Freedom May finally be snuffed out because after that dictators
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will have the technological needs to control us that they have never had
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before Orwell's 1984 would have loved to have
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the technology that the NSA does to keep us under control very good point Big Brother's tele
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screens were nothing compared to what we've got now but so I guess
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um I feel like people in their hearts so want and Love Freedom that freedom will
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have to Prevail that you're saying it needs preparation uh we we most of what I'm doing I do not
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expect to be successful in my lifetime but I'm hoping to lay the foundation so
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that after the collapse people will learn the right lessons from that development and come out on the other
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side with a better world you certainly have accomplished a lot I
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encourage people to go to your website Constitution Dot or or
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constitution.org wow we have been visiting with John Roland he is the founder and president of the
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Constitution Society it is September 17 Constitution Day and we're so pleased to
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have had you with us we're going to take a brief break and we'll be back in just a moment to talk about what's on the
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November ballot that will cost Texans up to 5 billion dollars we're going to talk
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about that in just a moment John thank you so much for joining us thank you for having me
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