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Bob Bernhoft, FES Austin, 2012/12/15
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Jun 5, 2025
Tax attorney Robert Bernhoft discusses legal issues with the income tax at the Free Enterprise Society meeting in Austin, Texas, Dec. 15, 2012.
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0:00
had a schedule is being departed from
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right now oh that's that's good shut it
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down I would like to we're going to
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probably have for whatever time we've
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got left I got a good friend of mine
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who's a lawyer here in Austin his name
0:15
is Bob
0:17
Bernard and he's one of these decrepit
0:20
lawyers the scum of the earth that
0:23
believes in the United States
0:26
Constitution now if you believe in the
0:28
United States Constitution you are
0:31
you know send them to the Slaughters
0:32
well anyway Bob's right here he's going
0:34
to come up and he's got all sorts of
0:37
very interesting War Stories and I
0:39
presume that he's going to tell us a war
0:41
story right
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now but you
0:45
know one thing I do know about him he
0:49
really loves to shovel snow
0:54
so here's Bob
0:58
bof
1:01
I don't have to shovel snow
1:04
anymore uh as some of you know uh I was
1:07
born and bread in Upper Midwest
1:09
Milwaukee Wisconsin and um um I've had
1:12
my my little law firm up there uh for
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about 12 13 years I was an older law
1:16
student had many careers before that and
1:19
um just uh two and a half uh two years
1:22
ago or so my wife and I decided that it
1:24
was time to make a change i' had done a
1:25
bunch of cases in Austin Texas and uh we
1:28
for some reason I just felt moved to do
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it so we pulled the trigger uh shut down
1:32
everything up there and moved with our
1:34
key people families so uh Austin is now
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uh my national headquarters we have a
1:38
little shop in Los Angeles but this is
1:40
where we live and work uh now and it's
1:42
good to be down here it really is um
1:45
I've always been impressed with the uh
1:48
independent ferocity the sort of
1:50
independent Spirit of Texas uh always
1:53
been intrigued by it enjoyed my time
1:55
down here and now I get to be a part of
1:57
it uh of course in Austin um we look
2:00
down upon at least until you've been
2:01
there about four or five years so uh I'm
2:05
still I've had you know I've was talking
2:07
to Larry about this I've been wearing uh
2:09
Larry Mayan boots since I was 16 years
2:11
old uh and then I gave them up for a
2:14
little bit I don't know why so now I get
2:15
to go to lucazi and get some lucazi
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boots and I'm excited about that uh I
2:19
wanted to thank Steve hempling from free
2:21
enterprise Society uh for letting me
2:23
make a few comments up here and of
2:25
coursecraft um some of you may know
2:27
Larry and I did the Bernice kugan case
2:28
in 2003 in Memphis Tennessee um and and
2:31
Larry's the finest trial attorney I've
2:33
ever worked with um committed
2:36
disciplined uh and very effective um
2:40
couple things that I'm interested in
2:41
these days we we do a lot of Federal
2:43
Criminal tax representation not just
2:45
trial work but uh we also represent
2:47
people who are targeted by
2:48
administrative criminal investigations
2:50
and grand jury investigations um we also
2:53
do a good bit of civil tax audit
2:55
collection um and we're looking for
2:57
leverage to obtain outcomes for our
2:59
clients and one of the things that we've
3:01
used a lot lately um is a hybrid version
3:04
of Freedom of Information Act requests
3:06
foyer requests uh particularly during uh
3:08
criminal investigations and contrary to
3:11
some conventional misunderstanding you
3:13
can obtain uh a good bit of information
3:16
even during the pency of a criminal
3:18
investigation uh through Foya um and so
3:21
we've been doing a lot of that work the
3:22
other thing that I've been interested in
3:24
lately uh is government misconduct and I
3:27
had the privilege of appearing with Joe
3:29
banister and Jones's show in October and
3:32
we talked a little bit about this um
3:34
what we're seeing uh over the past 10
3:36
years now this this sort of misconduct
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whether it's subornation of perjury
3:41
Discovery
3:42
violations um all manner of categories
3:46
of that sort of misconduct it's it's
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always been Focus it's been typically
3:50
focused in what we call
3:52
disfavored litigant in other words the
3:55
system takes a look at it and says well
3:57
you know we got those dog on tax
3:59
protesters you know now the Attorney
4:00
General says uh it's it's tax def fires
4:03
they change the name once in a while we
4:05
can go after them and we can break the
4:08
rules but we won't break the rules
4:10
outside of that little narrow uh you
4:12
know nobody likes tax protesters right
4:14
nobody likes people that don't file
4:15
returns and pay tax so we'll be able to
4:17
break the rules regarding that small
4:18
subset of people and it'll never bleed
4:21
out to any anything else and that turns
4:23
out to be false and of course that's a
4:25
logical fallacy to suggest that you can
4:27
take and have different sets of rules
4:29
for certain types of people and that the
4:31
breaking of the rules and that pattern
4:33
is not going to bleed out across all
4:36
spectrum of society and it has in fact
4:40
uh um and that's what's wrong with that
4:42
sort of an idea that you can break the
4:44
rules get away with it because you don't
4:45
particularly like this little class of
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people it also happens to be a bill of
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attainer problem you know to identify a
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certain class of individual by belief or
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any other attribute and treat them
4:57
differently under what's supposed to be
4:59
the same set of laws that's a due
5:01
process violation and that's a that's a
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bill of attainer and to some extent an
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expost facto problem so we've uh we do a
5:08
lot of trial work and um I we I wanted
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to talk briefly I'm not going to talk
5:11
for long I'm turn this back over to
5:12
Larry Larry's got some great stuff that
5:14
he's working with on the big board here
5:16
um but I want people to be thinking
5:18
about talking to friends and neighbors
5:19
and people in their Community not just
5:21
about beliefs about tax we really do
5:23
have to reach people about the
5:25
Transcendent principles what this should
5:26
be about I think what it is about for
5:28
most of us if not all of us is restoring
5:31
ordered Liberty and freedom in America
5:33
that's the fundamental proposition and
5:35
there's lots of ways to do that and I
5:37
encourage everybody to reach out across
5:39
the aisle to people of different
5:41
political stripes and Persuasions make
5:43
common cause with people on an issue
5:45
that you both share doesn't matter
5:47
whether they're Democrats or Republicans
5:48
or Libertarians or communist workers
5:50
socialist union party you got to reach
5:52
across the aisle and find common ground
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and there is common common ground out
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there one of the things that encourages
5:59
me great is the young people right now
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uh the extent to which they have
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gravitated to Dr Ron Paul's message that
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is a hope for all of us that's so people
6:09
that say that the American people are
6:11
tuned out they're not interested in
6:13
complex ideas about fiat currency and
6:16
Tom selus is here uh and they're not
6:18
interested in these things and they they
6:19
don't want to pay attention well I
6:21
submit to you that the the the huge body
6:24
of young people that have gravitated to
6:25
Dr Paul's me message of Sanity economic
6:28
sanity and truth should give us all hope
6:31
and we have to start encouraging more of
6:32
that and not disdaining other people who
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may have seized upon a different issue
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that we don't feel is so important
6:38
there's a lot of heads to the tentacular
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Beast out there and and and we all pick
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one or two hopefully that we can make a
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difference in um so this government
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misconduct issue is an important deal um
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and what we've been doing through Foya
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in criminal cases is obtaining evidence
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of Discovery violations subornation of
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perjury and a whole manner of of other
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misconduct and recently we were really
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happy it's a wonderful family out of
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Atlanta Georgia the marshala family and
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I'm not going to get into the details of
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the case but should
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I oh jeez you're
7:13
corrected all right my my lawyer told me
7:16
to do something I better listen uh all
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right I'll give you a synopsis of this
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case and this is what's one of the one
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of the things that's wrong when you know
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and and I'll tell you something there's
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plenty of good government servants out
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there we need highquality men and women
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in government service there's bad people
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out there that need to be investigated
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and disciplined for a fraud and all
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violence and all manner of things and we
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don't want ourselves broad brushed uh as
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people who don't believe in discipline
7:42
Law and Order because I do now I'm a
7:44
Libertarian all right I believe in
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individual rights and Liberty but I also
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believe in objective morality and I
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believe that we have to have a
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disciplined society and many times we're
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all broad brushed as being some sort of
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anarchists you know because uh some of
7:58
us have conventional beliefs regarding
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the scope and nature of tax and we have
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to resist that we have to talk to people
8:04
about other issues as well um the
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marshala case is an object example of
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what's wrong with how the federal
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special agents are trained how our
8:15
United States attorneys and the
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assistant us attorneys are trained and
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and how doj tax division runs their shop
8:22
Nazis I'm sorry na well you know it it
8:27
has it's become it's become so personal
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and and unhinged from rule of law due
8:32
process principles it's an Abomination
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so you have a female special agent down
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in Atlanta Georgia back in
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1999 Patricia L
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Bergstrom and she sees this circle
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company start growing and building a lot
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of the they hang they hang rock
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everybody know what rock hanging is
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drywall it's called Rock hanging they're
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big drywall company and Jerry's broke he
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moves down with his family from New York
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City yes his last name has an extra vow
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back there he is Italian uh and and so
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he moves down there and he starts his
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company from scratch they have nothing
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and he gets a rock contract to build the
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Olympics and he assists in building the
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Olympic Village he becomes successful
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and he's not a non-filer Jerry marshala
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files his tax returns and pays tax and
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by our account he's paid a whole bunch
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of tax over the past 12 years supporting
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sub Clans somewhere in the world I don't
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know where um but it's a lot of tax but
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he was Italian uh he was from New York
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City uh and he liked to wear a nice suit
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every once in a while that apparently
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made him John GTI Jr and special agent
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Bergstrom set about to with a
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persecution that's hard to grasp the
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scope of it starts in 1999 she believes
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he's some mafiosi from New York she
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starts investigating him for uh money
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laundering and currency transaction
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report violations she uh commits fraud
9:52
and causes uh a seizure of some checks
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in the FedEx terminal in FedEx in
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Memphis tendency to be seized uses that
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as a pretext to start an organized crime
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LCN investigation and this goes on for
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12 years uh Jerry marshala Jr my lead
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client is is as I was mentioning over
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lunch has to be the most investigated
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man in the
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world uh and I'll get back to that so
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the Marshal ett is what do they do you
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know they're law-abiding people they
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talk to some of their business lawyers
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guys that do contracts for them uh and
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they hire the best former prosecutors
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you know they can get in Atlanta larious
10:30
laughing I mean this is this is what's
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this is what rational people do right
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you know I'm following my returns I'm
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paying tax uh I talked to my business
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lawyer he says oh there's these guys
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over here at this white shoe Silk
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Stocking firm over there and they've got
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a couple of former prosecutors they're
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going to give you a great defense um so
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this goes into 2002 they have to hire
10:49
criminal tax counsel and they do former
10:51
prosecutors from Atlanta Georgia the
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best in the business down there uh well
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they immediately start to sense that
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something's wrong so the investigation
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goes on and on and on ultimately in 2007
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in March they're indicted by a Federal
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grand jury um their lawyers tell them
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it's a slam dunk they didn't do anything
11:07
wrong they're innocent they're going to
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be acquitted by the jury and how lawyers
11:10
can tell clients that given the jury
11:12
system we have I don't know but that's
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what they were told and they were
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confident they they didn't know about
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the system they were confident that they
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were going to be acquitted well they
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went to trial and they were convicted in
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September
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2007 um I was lead trial counsel for uh
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Wesley Snipes and in the case down in
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Florida in 2008 we' gotten the jury
11:32
verdict February 1st 2008 and they were
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looking for help because they were
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facing sentencing um and so they called
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me up the father Mr marshalla called me
11:41
up um and his daughter called me they
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were very worried about their family of
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course because uh Jerry Jr was facing
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seven eight years in federal prison and
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the father who was in his early 70s at
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the time is facing five or six years in
11:53
prison so we were engaged for a
11:55
sentencing consult and appeal so the
11:58
first thing we did is we consulted with
12:00
the local lawyers on sentencing and we
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got them a bail pending appeal the judge
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had made a crucial Reliance on on on
12:08
accountant or Tax Advisor jury
12:10
instruction mistake crucially important
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that's a conventional mistake judges can
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make those mistakes so we had a great
12:16
appeal issue and the judge had integrity
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and he let them out on their own
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recognizance pending the appeal so at
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least their business wouldn't be
12:23
destroyed and their family wouldn't be
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destroyed then we started reading the
12:25
trial transcripts getting ready for what
12:27
we call the merits appeal we're going to
12:29
appeal these convictions to the US court
12:31
of appeals for the 11th circuit and my
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team and I started seeing what we call
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India of
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misconduct we looked at the discovery
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15,000 pages of Discovery in a massive
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client tax conspiracy evasion false
12:44
subscription case that was going on for
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12 years that's just not possible and
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then we saw evidence that there was
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subornation of perjury when you read a
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trial transcript and and you read a lot
12:54
of them you can get a pretty good whiff
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when a witness is lying here America
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here in
13:01
America the trial was so bad and then
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the the government prosecutors there was
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an older Italian man who worked uh as a
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Rockman for Jerry and he was a first
13:10
generation immigrant he had a very thick
13:12
Italian accent uh the prosecutor Justin
13:14
anad actually approached him on a a a a
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direct examination and asked him a
13:20
couple questions and everybody could
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hear he had a thick he he was in his
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late 70s he had a thick Italian accent
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and he says um uh where are you from you
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know are you from are you are you
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Italian and he said I am an American I'm
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an American citizen that's the sort of
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crap these prosecutors started right off
13:38
with the jury as if these were some sort
13:40
of mobsters because they had a Italian
13:42
immigrant who was working Hanging Rock
13:43
for him and it got worse they Savaged
13:46
them uh with talk of mansions that
13:48
didn't exist uh it was it was the most
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unprofessional misconduct opening
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statement I've ever seen and not one
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objection from the defense attorneys not
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one
13:59
so the trial rolled out the government
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also pulled out a confidential informant
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and increasingly this is also used in
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all manner of cases not just criminal
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tax um and you could read that trial
14:10
transcript and know this guy was lying
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that that that Sean McBride that
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confidential informant who's no longer
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very confidential because I know his
14:16
name because we investigated him uh he
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was actually a controlled paid FBI
14:22
informant managed and controlled by
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Atlanta based FBI Special Agent Mark Su
14:27
and they lied to the court about that
14:29
they lied to the defense lawyers and
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that did not reveal that he was a paid
14:33
confidential controlled informant so
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he's going to say anything they want to
14:36
up there and he did he lied about
14:38
babysitting Jerry and Sandy marshalled
14:40
his kids Sandy told me later I wouldn't
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I I I met that buffoon once and I would
14:46
never I wouldn't have that oath babysit
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my children in a million years this is a
14:49
solid family uh so it just went from bad
14:52
to worse closing argument was a
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nightmare uh so we read this and so I
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went to the Marshal ettes and I said you
14:58
should authorize me to do a as conduct
15:00
investigation because I think he had
15:02
massive Discovery violations and there's
15:04
something going on behind this case
15:06
there's no way this case just Springs
15:07
out of nowhere as a criminal tax case
15:09
there's something behind here there's a
15:11
story behind the story now I'll compress
15:15
the story a little bit so we started
15:17
investigating uh we had an investigator
15:19
and US conducted interviews we tracked
15:21
down all of the witnesses and reined
15:23
them and lo and behold the stuff that
15:25
was in the memoranda of interview that
15:27
the government the IRS special agent put
15:29
down was never said there was loads of
15:32
exculpatory statements made to the
15:34
government that have to be revealed to
15:35
the defense that was not this wasn't an
15:38
unfair trial this was a fraud a fraud of
15:42
Epic
15:43
Proportion uh so when they say well you
15:45
know we can go after the non-filers but
15:47
you know we won't break the rules
15:48
regarding anybody else that's a ball
15:50
face lie every American should know that
15:53
this can happen to them because it can
15:54
happen to the Marshal edes down in
15:55
Atlanta it can happen to them that's a
15:57
message we can talk to people about just
15:59
because people don't agree with an
16:01
unconventional view regarding the scope
16:02
and nature of tax does not mean that
16:05
they should not be concerned what's
16:06
going on in the federal agent Special
16:08
Agent Cadre with our government in
16:10
Washington DC with doj tax division and
16:12
with the US attorney's offices because
16:14
they should be they better be concerned
16:16
if they care about themselves their
16:17
children's their children and their
16:19
future uh so we did a bunch of Freedom
16:21
of Information Act requests and lo and
16:22
behold again Jerry Marshal is the most
16:24
investigated man in the world there was
16:26
an execution of a search warrant on
16:28
alleged conspirator that was not
16:29
revealed to the defense prior to trial
16:31
in violation of the statutes and
16:33
Constitution laws of the United States
16:34
as Larry knows and other people know in
16:37
here uh and uh there was 17 federal
16:40
agencies that participated in that rate
16:43
17 now I'm pretty good at my alphabet
16:45
soup you know my alphabet soup directory
16:47
the acronyms five or six of them I
16:49
didn't even know what they were
16:51
including AOS which we learned was the
16:53
office of Air Force Special
16:55
investigations no kidding the off air
16:57
Air Force office of special
16:59
investigations a fosi they had everybody
17:02
there I mean You' have thought they were
17:04
going after Osama Bin Laden oh and by
17:06
the way the confidential informant to
17:07
Jin up the investigation and make more
17:10
money he actually told the government
17:11
the special agents that Jerry knew Osama
17:14
Bin Laden personally and was affiliated
17:16
with the Osama Bin Laden construction
17:18
company I'm not kidding you now if
17:20
you're a special agent Hey Joe what do
17:21
you think about that if somebody came up
17:23
to you and said hey this guy he's a
17:24
personal friend of Osama bin Laden I
17:26
mean what would you think about that the
17:27
guy's not
17:29
slightly not slightly incredible right
17:32
oh no they put it they put it in their
17:35
uh form 9131 Joe put it right in there
17:39
right in the 9131 so Jerry marshala was
17:42
a bad man um so we started figuring out
17:45
what was going on and she used the uh
17:47
what we call the uh Italian uh ethnic
17:50
Prejudice Whispering campaign she told
17:52
everybody and anybody that she talked to
17:54
in the FBI at the US attorney's office
17:56
at doj tax division that these were LCN
17:59
laosa ostra organized crime people and
18:02
that's how she kept all these people
18:04
interested in what she was doing uh so
18:07
we started to find this all out through
18:08
Foya because the government wouldn't
18:10
give us any more documents than were
18:12
produced before trial and Discovery and
18:14
so we foyer all of these agencies and
18:16
and the hundreds of thousands of pages
18:19
started to Pile in without exaggeration
18:22
hundreds of thousands of pages that told
18:25
the true story of the fraud that special
18:27
agent berst had perpetrated I'm going to
18:30
fast forward to the appeal I argued the
18:32
appeal at the 11 circuit in Atlanta for
18:34
them uh August 18th
18:37
2010 it was a very good oral argument
18:40
you know you're and this doesn't happen
18:41
for lawyers who are representing
18:43
controversial causes I I get abused from
18:45
the judges you know I mean I you know
18:48
you're doing pretty well uh when one of
18:50
the judges on the three-judge panel
18:52
interrupts the government lawyer who
18:53
tried the
18:54
case 15 seconds into the government's
18:57
lawyer's uh presentation on appeal he
18:59
interrupts him and he says uh Mr before
19:02
you get going um hold on one second I
19:05
just want to let you know that my
19:06
colleagues and I we're deeply troubled
19:08
by your case now
19:12
continue you know you're doing pretty
19:14
good and we're like what happened here
19:17
we we and then after a couple more
19:19
minutes he interrupts him he goes Mr
19:21
Anan I got a question for you we going
19:24
to put people in federal prison for this
19:27
really so you know it was one of those
19:30
um they smelled it so you you know there
19:32
there's there's good people and bad
19:34
people in all walks of life I've been in
19:35
front of extremely good federal judges
19:38
and I've been in front of horrible
19:40
federal judges who disgrace the office
19:43
but there's there's a spectrum as there
19:45
is in life uh these were some pretty
19:47
good judges up there on that panel and
19:49
they sniffed a rat even though we
19:51
couldn't raise any of this misconduct
19:52
stuff on appeal you have to go on the
19:54
record we just went after the jury
19:56
instruction and the government
19:57
misconduct in opening statement and
19:59
closing argument which we argued
20:01
aggressively uh so we got the decision
20:03
the first decision came down uh actually
20:05
argu in 2009 I'm sorry in August of 2009
20:09
August of
20:10
2010 the panel came in and reversed all
20:13
of the counts of conviction save one the
20:17
count one Klein tax
20:19
conspiracy so although it was great to
20:21
get it all those counts reversed but
20:24
with the count one Klein conspiracy
20:26
still remaining unreversed they face
20:28
their sentencing risk they still had the
20:30
same sentencing exposure as if none of
20:32
the counts had been reversed it was a
20:34
good day but it was not a great day by
20:36
any stretch so we filed a petition for
20:38
panel rehearing to try and compel that
20:41
three judge panel to
20:43
reconsider whether the failures that we
20:46
documented in the original appeal also
20:48
required reversal of that last remaining
20:50
count uh they don't Grant many of them
20:52
they granted this one they ordered
20:54
additional briefing and on uh December
20:56
22nd of 2010 and they reversed the last
20:59
count so now the Slate was wiped clean
21:01
the Marshal lettas were not facing any
21:03
sentencing risk whatsoever and I got to
21:05
call uh Jerry Joyce and his father uh
21:08
when they were having their company
21:09
Christmas party on the
21:11
22nd um I need that s excuse me thank
21:14
you so that was a good day so we figured
21:18
um I I had some guys working with me
21:20
investigators on the case and we figure
21:22
there's no way the government's going to
21:23
retry because they get to retry those
21:25
counts right not withstanding the fact
21:27
that the 11 Circ wipes the Slate clean
21:29
the government gets an opportunity to
21:30
decide whether they're going to retry
21:32
and with all the dirt that we had
21:34
documented in court including a 1500
21:37
page uh motion to dismiss for misconduct
21:40
the evidence all the we took all the
21:42
documents we got from Foya and we said
21:44
this is where special agent Bergstrom
21:45
committed perjury highlighted it I mean
21:48
1500 pages of exhibits and filings we
21:50
figured there was no way the
21:51
government's going to retry but they did
21:53
and they announced their intention to
21:55
retry them on the entire case again and
21:57
this
21:58
shows how careerism and advancement and
22:03
ego and narcissism narcissism are
22:06
running uh the show and calling the
22:07
shots in many of these situations we
22:10
were shocked so we we figured well we'll
22:14
blow the thing up and we'll file another
22:16
motion to dismiss for government
22:18
misconduct because we were learning
22:19
every month we would get more of these
22:21
foyer disclosures and putting the
22:22
picture together and so we did we filed
22:24
one government was so the government
22:26
comes to me and says well and by the way
22:28
the Marshall have authorized me to talk
22:29
publicly about every intimate detail
22:32
about this case so you're aware they
22:34
want people to know what's going
22:37
on
22:40
um so the government came to me and said
22:42
well we won't retried it if Jerry if
22:45
they all plead if they all plead to a
22:47
top count
22:48
felony and Jerry does 18 months so old
22:52
man does 6 months and the bookkeeper
22:54
gets probation and uh my clients weren't
22:57
going to do that that so I said no
22:58
that's not going to work then we filed
23:00
our motion to dismiss government comes
23:01
back 3 four months later well we've
23:03
given it some consideration and if they
23:05
all do a top count felony then we'll
23:07
give them probation so now we're not
23:09
interested in that you you guys want to
23:10
retry the case we're ready for you and
23:12
we're going to go for an evidentiary
23:13
hearing on Miss conduct try and get this
23:14
case dismissed and uh this goes back and
23:17
forth I finally had a meeting with the
23:18
entire Command Staff of the US
23:20
attorney's office Northern disc of
23:21
Georgia and they sent a doj tax division
23:23
lawyer down there to monitor them
23:25
because they had a bad wh because I
23:26
called some people at doj Christopher
23:28
maetta you might have bumped into him
23:30
Larry uh and then things started to turn
23:33
a little bit so then they came in and
23:34
said okay fine we'll plead them all out
23:37
to misdemeanors we'll give you
23:38
misdemeanors if if you don't expose all
23:40
this and file that last motion you're
23:42
going to file uh and everybody gets
23:44
probation misdemeanors in probation on
23:46
most criminal defense attorneys that's a
23:48
dog on good deal because they risk going
23:50
six seven years in federal prison that's
23:52
not a joke and the old man would have
23:54
probably died in federal prison at that
23:56
rate my clients rejected it so we filed
23:59
our last motion to dismiss for
24:01
government misconduct I argued it in
24:03
August um and uh September 10th we had a
24:06
final hearing and ultimately uh the
24:09
judge dismissed all the charges against
24:10
jury with prejudice um the old man just
24:14
to fall on the sword took a
24:16
misdemeanor and and no sentence the
24:19
father took a misdemeanor paid a $25
24:22
fine as he walked out of court and no
24:24
probation no supervised release but
24:25
Jerry was dismissed with prejudice and
24:28
walked out of court of free man so um
24:31
that's why I wanted to wind it up with
24:32
that it's important that we talk to
24:34
people about the things that are going
24:35
on out there and not just talking about
24:37
the principal issue that we may care
24:38
about connecting with people out in the
24:40
community and getting them to be
24:42
interested in uh good government account
24:45
accountable transparent government and
24:48
there's ways that we all can do that
24:51
um yes sir uh Bob glad to have you in
24:54
Austin now where unfortunately the
24:57
judges are not
24:59
good uh but uh do we have a website for
25:03
the marshmallo case and others like it
25:05
yeah we we've been mad busy uh it took
25:08
so much time out of us over the past
25:09
couple years on that case we devoted
25:11
everything we had to it um there's some
25:13
reference on my website to the Marshall
25:15
Ed case we're putting up all the filings
25:17
all the documents the transcript of my
25:19
most recent oral argument in August uh
25:21
give me two or 3 weeks uh the website
25:23
for The Firm is bernhoft
25:25
law.com sure it's b n h
25:32
ft law.com all lower Cas so bernhoft
25:37
law.com
25:39
and um you go to our website we're over
25:42
on 12th in Colorado um and we'll talk to
25:45
anybody about any problems they got you
25:47
got an issue you want to talk about is
25:49
uh give a call over to the office
25:50
Bethany will answer the phone uh she'll
25:52
set it up and uh be happy to talk to
25:54
anybody yes sir and have you joined the
25:56
Federalist Society we have a very strong
25:58
chapter here of like-minded lawyers um
26:01
you know I used to be a student member
26:03
of the of the federal Society in law
26:04
school but I it's a good I was talking
26:06
to Steve and I've lost track of all my
26:08
newsletters like Franklin Sanders the
26:10
money changer FES so we're going to be
26:13
resubscribing and I'll take you up on
26:14
the federal Society membership because
26:15
I'm very sympathetic to that that type
26:18
of legal analysis and judicial uh
26:21
thinking well in particular our local
26:23
chapter is very strong excellent thank
26:26
you very much yes sir silly question but
26:29
there
26:30
any chance of uh bringing a lawsuit
26:33
against Bergstrom for misconduct perjury
26:37
and all great question real quick answer
26:40
uh the Marshal has got justice but it
26:42
wasn't perfect Justice and everybody's
26:45
chafing about this should be a great day
26:47
Jerry walk set a a court of free man uh
26:50
but they were required to wave uh any
26:53
feral federal civil rights cause of
26:55
action in The Bargain uh and that was
26:57
part of the deal where the judge
26:58
dismissed all the charges with prejudice
27:00
against Jerry and without that he he's
27:02
he's a construction guy so he's got to
27:04
get bonding and insurance even a
27:06
misdemeanor destroys his business so
27:08
they were forced to make very very
27:10
difficult and believe me we had a wamp
27:11
them federal civil rights
27:13
suit uh but I understand from certain
27:16
people I've spoken to in government that
27:17
all will not be well with special agent
27:19
Bergstrom what about a criminal
27:22
complaint yeah uh We've waved all of our
27:25
causes of action on that but I
27:26
understand that take is doing its own
27:28
investigation treasury inspector for tax
27:31
administration it's not perfect Justice
27:33
folks uh it's hard to come by and um but
27:36
these people but anybody can file a
27:38
criminal complaint well that's true so
27:41
uh in several weeks you know when
27:42
everything goes up on the website if
27:44
some right thinking individuals want to
27:45
pursue a course of action who am I to
27:49
say thank
27:52
you thank you very much thank you thanks
27:55
Bob
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