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Jon Roland interviewed by Lasse Jensen 2010/07/22
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Jun 5, 2025
Lasse Engelbrecht Jensen, a reporter for Danish public radio, interviews Jon Roland on the constitutional militia movement.
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0:14
my name is Jens this is the Broadcasting
0:16
Corporation
0:20
National and this is John
0:23
Rolland most notably for with the Texas
0:28
militia editing just so it's not in a
0:35
hole I first wanted you I'm going to ask
0:37
you some of the same
0:43
question what what Ro is Arizona in the
0:48
interest issue
0:51
of well the main thing is that we now
0:54
have a armed
0:57
engagement between Mexican military
1:02
forces uh and militia on our side of the
1:07
Border this is something new can you
1:11
explain that what kind of can you
1:13
explain how and
1:15
when yeah a short time ago
1:20
uh what appeared to be Mexican military
1:22
they're wearing
1:24
uniforms although their spokesman was
1:27
one of What's called the Zetta most was
1:30
L us
1:32
disease uh these were
1:34
former
1:36
uh Mexican Special Forces trained by the
1:39
United States who went to work for the
1:43
cartel as
1:45
muscle and have since broken off and
1:48
become their own
1:50
cartel uh so apparently a lot of them
1:53
still wear
1:54
uniforms we can't be sure if we see a
1:57
guy in uniform whether he's uh still in
2:01
the military or just wearing the
2:04
uniform uh but what they've been doing
2:08
is not just crossing the border with
2:12
drugs but setting up at least one
2:15
Outpost that we know of to defend their
2:18
trans shipment
2:20
quter and asserting what amounts to
2:24
sovereignty over US
2:27
Territory uh warning Americans
2:30
that if they see anyone carrying a gun
2:33
in the area of operation that they have
2:35
claimed that they will kill
2:39
them so uh the situation has risen to a
2:43
new
2:44
level that is that the most important uh
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is that the most
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important case down there that kind
2:53
of CES
2:56
interest well of course it's the thing
2:59
is that it went went to the point where
3:02
the The Intruders fired on
3:06
Americans the Americans fired back and
3:09
killed two of
3:11
them and the ZET CLA stole their
3:14
drugs as though they had a right not to
3:18
have the drug
3:19
stolen and uh the word we get is that
3:24
the guys seized the drugs and destroyed
3:27
them on the on the scene so uh either
3:32
that or it was a different incident
3:34
where involving a Ral
3:37
cartel uh but our guys have the policy
3:42
that if they find anyone with drugs they
3:43
destroy the
3:45
drugs what is the most important thing
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that the
3:48
militia or the groups that call
3:50
themselves The Min group of Min related
3:52
groups what is the most important task
3:55
for
3:56
them well the most important task is
3:59
essentially to enforce our laws against
4:03
uh illegals entering the country across
4:05
the border at other the
4:08
checkpoints uh if someone sneaks across
4:12
the border that's an invasion under the
4:14
laws of
4:15
war the borders are not now being
4:18
adequately defended by uh us
4:23
Personnel so uh it leaves a gap and
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enforcement
4:30
that's resulting in a lot of crime
4:33
including murder rape now there was a
4:36
recent incident of a Rancher and his
4:39
family being killed he being beheaded
4:42
and the ranch burned
4:44
down so evidently he was one who
4:49
resisted the demands of vettas
4:52
apparently in that case uh to uh
4:57
surrender uh control of his Ranch to
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them so they can move drugs across
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it and the the policy that the cartels
5:09
have been practicing what they call
5:12
Plata okomo silver or
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Lead uh will'll either either accept our
5:18
bribes or we'll kill
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you and they're trying to gain effective
5:25
control over
5:27
territory along the border on our side
5:30
of the border and along trans shipment
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corridors leading into the United States
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mainly to our Metro metropolitan
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areas Arizona recently passed the law
5:44
and that's going to take effect from
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this I think 29th of
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July do that law anything to do with the
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rising interest in what's going on
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in well it provides encouragement that
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there is support at the level of state
5:59
government
6:00
or resistance to Corn
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Intruders
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uh so we have state government on board
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which we don't yet have in other
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bordering
6:13
states so that itself is is encouraging
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from the militia Viewpoint now of course
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the law is actually very
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weak all it does
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is
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authorize um Arizona the police to make
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an arrest that they suspect someone is
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an illegal and turn them over to uh
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immigration and
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custom uh which is pretty weak I mean
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there's they could do that
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anyway but uh it just uh makes it
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official policy can you try to explain
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to me just really shortly because I
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don't think the Eng list know this I
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mean at least now us except from Arizona
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when this law goes it is a federal
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matter
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to to approach people who they believe
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in the
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country explain that LA and how it
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is
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that well the federal
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statute is authorized by the clause in
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our
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constitution uh that gives delegates to
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Congress the authority to Define crimes
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involving the laws of
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Nations uh the law of Nations covers
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protecting your borders against
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Outsiders um the question then arises is
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that an exclusive delegation of power or
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is shared with the state well there's
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nothing in the Constitution
8:00
that forbids the States from exercising
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a similar
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power and in fact
8:06
originally when this country was founded
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States administered
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naturalization
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law uh Congress had preemptive power to
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prescribe the rules for
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naturalization but the states actually
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carried it
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out and uh so it's not a stret for the
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states to be engaged in defense of their
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borders uh against foreign
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Intruders uh so you know historically
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there is adequate precedent for the
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states just flat out and starting the
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Border you know even Prosecuting uh
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Intruders into their own
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statutes uh as it is happens all they
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are doing is turning them over to
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federal agents for prosecution under
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federal
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statute uh but uh constitutionally
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there's nothing that bars stays from
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enacting their own penal statutes
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okay you talked about for intruders
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before and as I understood when you
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talked about it it's not necessarily
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immigrant people were coming here to
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work could you could you explain to me
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what you mean when
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you well legally someone is only an
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immigrant if they come in through a Port
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of
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Entry uh and then either get a temporary
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Visa or a long-term work visa we call a
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green
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card
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uh if they sneak across the border and
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somewhere other than a Port of Entry
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that's a
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crime and that makes the person an
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intruder um
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even an American citizen is supposed to
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enter the the country through a Port of
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Entry I mean we ourselves are not
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supposed to sneak across the
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border uh so um that's the key
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distinction and where we're talking
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about here is U people from other
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countries not just
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Mexicans a high proportion of them are n
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alties of other kind we call they call
10:32
them U
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uh
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oh otm other than
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Mexicans um High proportion of those are
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from the Middle
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East so
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uh uh when they Sak across the border
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they become criminals and subject to
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criminal
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prosecution uh
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a very high proportion of them are
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criminals of a violent kind not just
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because they snuck across the border but
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because they're coming here to commit
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crimes suchly violent
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crimes uh
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some uh Defenders of immigrants will
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argue that uh on the average uh
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immigrants are no more uh prone to be
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criminal than than US citizens
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are and even but even if that were
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true um it's still every time a criminal
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comes in who should have stayed on the
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other side of the border that is one
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criminal too
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many you you
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described you said that if human the
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people that you talk to work with
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expain you want to talk
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about well the call has come from
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Arizona asking other states to send
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contingent to provide a show of
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force the hope is that if enough of us
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show up in force that it will discourage
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The Intruders
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uh right now the theas or their other
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car have been crossing the border and
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encountering very little
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resistance there have been a few armed
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encounters with border guards in which
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our border guards have withdrawn and of
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course they call in
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reinforcements by the time the
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reinforcements arrive the calus have
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gone back over the Border but there have
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been armed engagements
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before uh between uh foreign Intruders
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and uh us Personnel on our side of the
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Border this is the first time that the
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force on our side of the Border have
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been civilian
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Mia and they didn't
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withdraw what do you what do you say to
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the people who are um who say that these
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people are armed and and
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that's dangerous and they might even be
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violent well the question of course is
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violence in what
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way uh we have Reliable Reports that the
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intruders are armed not with just with
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AKs or
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M16s but with Cruiser weapons that means
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uh larger guns that are mounted on a
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tripod and and sered with a you know
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know uh uh uh Bel of
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ammunition uh that they are armed with
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50 caliber weapons with uh RPGs rocket
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launchers um so they're armed with heavy
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stuff this isn't just light infantry
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Weaponry so it's
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uh the the opposition especially that is
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are very well
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armed and they're not carrying that kind
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of armament uh just for a te
14:40
party when you talk about that amount of
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Weaponry or that
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size um clearly we're not talking about
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only little immigrant families that are
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tring to come here to Mo La and and work
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in the restaurants and stuff like who
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are the who are the main sources behind
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what going on and what you all what to
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see
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most well the drugs the cartel the
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cartels are mainly in the drug
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trade they're trying to smuggle uh
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narcotics especially heroin and cocaine
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uh in the United States although they've
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also been producing a lot of
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amphetamine uh
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however in many of the uh locations
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where they have taken up fairly stable
15:32
positions because of our inner
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cities uh they are actually making more
15:38
money with extortion than they are with
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selling
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drugs there are entire neighborhoods
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where if you want to do business you
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have to pay a tax to the cartel they
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even call it
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attack so uh but this is inside the
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United States and places like Los
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Angeles and San Diego and and other
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cities tucon
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Phoenix
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uh and because everyone is afraid to
16:11
complain about them or to testify
16:13
against them the local law enforcement
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is hampered in trying to do anything
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about
16:22
it and in fact they are under threat
16:25
themselves the uh CH to Le have been
16:29
threatening our Law Enforcement Officers
16:31
with death not only for of themselves
16:34
but their
16:35
families and even if they are courageous
16:40
enough to resist that it that can't help
16:43
but have a an effect on
16:47
them you talk about Than People how they
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play a role in this
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thing yeah the uh we usually think of
16:57
drug lowers as the
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guys uh in places like you know caloa
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or in medine or other places medine has
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been kind of shut down now but U as the
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guys in the producing
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count but they have to launder their
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money and they mainly do it with a
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cooperation of a few large International
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Banks who typically make a
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cut uh as much as
17:33
30% well as as near as we can figure out
17:37
the drug lowers in uh these countries
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producing countries are not getting 30%
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themselves they have overhead too and
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after paying out uh for judges and
17:54
lawyers and uh police and everybody else
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they have to pay off uh they appear to
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be netting only about 5 or
18:04
[Music]
18:06
10% so with the bankers making the
18:09
biggest share of the money one has to
18:12
ask who are the real drug
18:15
lords you saying that the bankers we
18:19
when we talk about Bankers we're talking
18:20
about one of the main power players in
18:22
the
18:24
US that that they have an interest in
18:26
the border is uh indirectly because of
18:30
in the right not not necessarily as
18:34
institutions um and we think in most
18:38
cases uh the participants
18:42
are officers of those institutions who
18:45
are simply corrupt even within their own
18:48
the rules of their own
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organization of course the organ it's
18:53
very easy for a corrupt Bank official to
18:57
hide what he's doing and keep the money
18:59
himself and he never shows up on the
19:01
books as as embezzlement or anything
19:05
like that that he could be get into
19:07
trouble
19:08
for uh and of course at some point the
19:11
his superiors you know might suspect
19:14
something but they don't want to you
19:17
know upset that uh situation by raising
19:20
the issue so they wind up allowing it to
19:24
occur okay uh two more questions and
19:30
if if you had the power uh of influence
19:34
to create a solution for the
19:37
Border what would that look
19:40
like well there are a number of things
19:42
we have to do one of the things is to
19:44
Simply
19:45
decriminalize these
19:48
drugs uh we tried prohibition of alcohol
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and it didn't work it caused more
19:55
trouble than it
19:57
solv so uh that that wouldn't however is
20:02
contrary what to what they some
20:04
Advocates of decriminalization saying
20:06
end the drugs problem we haven't ended
20:09
the alcohol problem even though we're
20:12
now only taxing
20:14
it uh you know narcotics are a real
20:18
threat and even in countries where there
20:22
is no effective uh enforcement of drug
20:26
laws there is still crime problem
20:29
arising from
20:30
drugs because uh you know people who
20:34
care to do so can't get people hooked on
20:36
drugs and then they become those people
20:39
become their slaves for other purposes
20:42
like committing
20:44
crimes um there is no simple
20:48
answer but that's one way we can improve
20:51
the
20:53
situation another is that we're simply
20:55
going to have to invest the money
20:59
in uh Manning you know border control
21:04
operations uh all AC all along our
21:07
border not just our Southern border or
21:10
our northern border but our seos as well
21:14
and that's going to be very
21:17
expensive um so we have to ask you know
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how
21:22
much uh criminal violence are we willing
21:26
to tolerate
21:29
in order to save the cost of doing that
21:31
or not doing that by not doing that what
21:34
about the immigration issue what
21:39
about
21:40
well it's generally recognized that
21:44
there is a need for foreign
21:48
labor
21:50
that is real in the sense that American
21:54
citizens probably aren't going to do
21:57
it so there needs to be a way to allow
21:59
those people to come in to work and to
22:03
go
22:04
back now we already have such a system
22:08
in
22:09
place uh it could be made more
22:12
efficient I foresee that we're going to
22:16
have to do something like uh uh flip
22:20
bracelets or other such things on all
22:25
such foreign guest workers
22:28
so that we know where they are at all
22:30
times and can make sure that they leave
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when they're suppos
22:34
to
22:36
um so that's one of the things we can do
22:39
so we need to put on so actually they're
22:43
usually put on their legs yeah uh the
22:46
cost of those are going to have to be
22:48
brought
22:49
down so we would need an awful lot of
22:51
them we can't afford to spend too much
22:54
money on bracel 15 million 11 million
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yeah so it's
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uh but uh they've got some of these
23:04
things down now to the size of rice
23:06
grains that can be inserted Under the
23:09
Skin but they have a short range they're
23:11
only few hundred
23:13
feet so getting them to be both long
23:16
range and small and cheap then becomes
23:19
challenge but it's probably it's it's a
23:22
problem that could probably be solved I
23:25
could imagine if if that happen there
23:27
possible mark them somehow that a lot of
23:30
uh groups on the net would say that this
23:33
is a break this a violation of civil
23:37
rights human rights well but the problem
23:42
is that foreign Nationals don't have the
23:44
same civil rights we
23:47
do uh everyone has a certain basic civil
23:52
rights but foreign Nationals lack one
23:56
important right because the right stay
23:59
here and if they are going to stay here
24:03
for any period of time they have to
24:06
agree to submit to
24:09
supervision and
24:12
once that rule is imposed then we get uh
24:20
the legitimate power of government to do
24:23
things like bracet putting bracelets on
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forign
24:28
visitors okay last question
24:32
was how how do you see the interest in
24:35
this qu uh isue how do you see when you
24:38
say that it's it's on the right can you
24:39
just describe to me what what signs are
24:42
they what is it that Mak you say
24:45
that well here in
24:47
Texas we are gotten to the point where
24:50
we have competing musters on any given
24:54
weekend um competing in the sense that
24:57
there there more than one in different
25:00
locations so that no one can attend all
25:03
of
25:04
them um and more and more guys are
25:07
showing up to those
25:10
mustard um we're getting a lot of guys
25:14
who are returning from Iraq and
25:18
Afghanistan who are freshly
25:21
trained very well
25:24
trained uh who want to to
25:29
been let's say enlightened by their
25:32
foreign
25:34
experience and now want to use their
25:36
skills to defend their country
25:39
here so as we get more and more of those
25:43
course most of them are when they return
25:46
are busy trying to get settled into
25:49
their new lives but most of them have
25:52
enough spare time that they wanted
25:55
devoted to defending their country so
25:59
uh uh we've been seeing increases in
26:04
participation like oh I don't know 20 30
26:08
40% a
26:10
month so you're talking about support
26:13
spent every month so far for since this
26:17
year yeah okay
26:20
great a lot of mosquitoes I'm
26:26
get I got a creek down there
26:30
yeah
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